Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:01:22 +0200
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Subject: testing


Hi,

Testing the server.
Avi







Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:39:45 +0200
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Subject: testing


Okay, I'll start the ball rolling.

This list is for all aspects of playing the game of Digger from Windmill,
Inc. 1983. Let's start off by talking about scores and strageties.

Myself, on the first screen I consider it a good level when I reach 7,100
points with the bonus level.

Also for every 20,000 points the player scores, he/she gets another life.

Next?

Avi






Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:41:39 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Scores and
strategies (was: testing)

> Myself, on the first screen I consider it a good level when I reach 7,100
> points with the bonus level.

<g> I consider it a failure unless I get maximum points (8650)!

> Also for every 20,000 points the player scores, he/she gets another life.

This is pretty well known. A more interesting question would be what is
the average level at which people reach this score? I usually get it when
getting the bonus on level 3.





Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:53:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Web site

I feel I should apologies for some missing stuff on the website. I'm having
trouble uploading it.

I think that binaries should be excluded from this list to prevent anyone
from accidentally sending something really big to lots of people, however
new format DRFs are not strictly binaries, so they're okay, and here's the
one that should be on the web page. To extract this from the email message,
copy everything between (but not including) the "-----" lines and paste it into
a new text file (e.g. in Notepad). Then save the file as something like
AMJ66700.DRF and run the command "DIGGER /P:AMJ66700.DRF". This is the first
time (to my knowledge) a new-format DRF has been sent by email like this, so
I'd be interested to know if it works for everyone.

-----
DRF
AJ DOS
19981510
1
20000
S   B     HHHHS
V  CC  C  V B  
VB CC  C  V    
V  CCB CB V
CCC
V  CC  C  V CCC
HH CC  C  V CCC
 V    B B V    
 HHHH     V    
C   V     V
C
CC  HHHHHHH  CC
SHHHHH  B B  HS
 CC  V       V 
 CC  V CCCCC V 
BCCB V CCCCC
V 
CCCC V       V 
CCCC V B  HHHH 
 CC  V CC V    
 BB  VCCCCV CC 
C    V CC V
CC 
CC   HHHHHH    
SHHHHB B BHHHHS
CC  V C C V BB 
C   V C C V CC 
 BB V C C
VCCCC
CCCCV C C VCCCC
CCCCHHHHHHH CC 
 CC  C V C  CC 
 CC  C V C     
C    C V
C    C
CC   C H C   CC
SHBCCCCBCCCCBHS
CV  CCCCCCC  VC
CHHH CCCCC HHHC
C  V
CCC  V  C
   HHH C HHH   
  B  V B V  B  
  C  VCCCV  C  
 CCC HHHHH CCC 
CCCCC
CVC CCCCC
CCCCC CHC CCCCC
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHS
VBCCCCBVCCCCCCV
VCCCCCCV CCBC V
V
CCCC VCCBCCCV
VCCCCCCV CCCC V
V CCCC VBCCCCCV
VCCBCCCV CCCC V
V CCBC
VCCCCCCV
VCCCCCCVCCCCCCV
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHS
VCBCCV V VCCBCV
VCCC
VBVBV CCCV
VCCCHH V HHCCCV
VCC V CVC V CCV
VCCHH CVC HHCCV
VC V CCVCC V
CV
VCHHBCCVCCBHHCV
VCVCCCCVCCCCVCV
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
SHCCCCCVCCCCCHS

VCBCBCVCBCBCV 
BVCCCCCVCCCCCVB
CHHCCCCVCCCCHHC
CCV CCCVCCC
VCC
CCHHHCCVCCHHHCC
CCCCV CVC VCCCC
CCCCHH V HHCCCC
CCCCCV V
VCCCCC
CCCCCHHHHHCCCCC
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHS
V CCBCCCCCBCC V
HHHCCCCBCCCCHHH
VBV
CCCCCCC VBV
VCHHHCCCCCHHHCV
VCCBV CCC VBCCV
VCCCHHHCHHHCCCV
VCCCC V V
CCCCV
VCCCCCV
VCCCCCV
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
00109579
r14u2U2dl32s5rs58S2sl20u46d2s5d2s16Ssu9r18d29r5u17r16u9r34s5
rs83r5l34d8l22d10u11r6l3d22s2r9u6r17d6l14r10lu12d18r8d4l11u4
r11d11r12u3UDdl28u12l16u22l7d23s6r4l3d10r21u10l6u4U2d3r5d11r29
u26r20u4l12u4r11u3l13r5d18l11r2d25r7l4u22r8d13s4ds7us295S2s2
d2
EOL
00109C9B
l36u2r18d3s11l11rR2r23u29r4u62Uu53r17s19l2s5ls7l3s5ls79l9d29
u26r37s37r2s20u4d2l2Ll13d9l6u5l8d5l10u6d25l5r6d5u2r25d5l56u18
r6u4l17d4r15l11r2d5u12r7u3l8u12r4s18S2s3d4
EOL
0010A11C
u22r16u3U2dsl32u28r19l2s9r2s12r4l2Lr2s3r2s26r7d31u2S5d2l4d23
l20u23d10USd7l26u12r10u6l6u4r8u6r5d16s5l3s4
EOL
0010A361
l3u5d2l20u5l6d5l5u53r49l3Sr2s4rs12r5s16rs17r7d11r13u5d20uU2d26
l16u6l5d8l9u8d
EOL
0010A5B9
r34u3U2l10u5l22u4l12d13s4d5r4l14Rrl3u7r6l2u6l6u5d2l6d15s10r29
u34l5r5u5r6l17u5l5r26
EOL
0010A75E
r34u3UDd2l19u59U10u41l4d32r7u48U2u49r5d34l6r11u4U2l5u18d18l27
u35U2l5u16r5u12r7d4r7u5r11d5u3r10u4l12d6l20r3d11r27d15l36d12
l20u5l5d5l8d6r28u4U2d2l10u17r6l7u5r7l12d5l12u11r25Llr7l2u5l15
u5l11u11r12d4r16d6r9du2Ud7u6l4r4l3r5d40l26r2l7slsl3s6l7r66u38
d34l5r3u3U2ul44u35l6r2u4l16u8r7s9r33l48d26uUud5
EOL
0010AEF0
r34u3UDdl9u76U8u25r4u5d41l13u5dl6u26Uu2l9u7r5u6l5u17l11d7l5d10
r6u6d13U2d2l8u4l7d5l15u19r5u21r4u6r8sru7r17LRr8d4r7d5u6r9s3r2
s29r6d4D9d2l67u18r23R2r16
EOL
0010B292
r8u12r6u12r3s8S2sr3l2d11l8d10l22u11l7u9l12u11l6u9r19l3s8S2sr
s4rs5r8d47r6u23d2D2u2sr5u7r3u3r8d6u21r5u11r8d33uUd23l13u6d2l31
u5l11u6l10u11dDu15r10u18r19s3rs8r30lL2r7s3r2s3r2s19r3l16d5r7
d12l5d21r8u5d12r6l15Llr27u36d3l5d31s4r3l62u39r22d18u2l5u8Du2
EOL
0010B7DE
r34u3Uudl7u57l4d23s10d8r3l4rRr2l5u17d2l5d5s2lsu9d11u34l5u6l22
d17r5d6r5d5u4r5u3r7u4d11D3d7s3d3l26u6l9u6
EOL
0010BA71
r8u5dl30u4l10u6r6u14l5u5l7u5Uu10r9s3r6d5r7d5r12u4d2r16d4r12u16
r6
EOL
0010BB86
r33u3U2d3l4u22l6u5r6l3u5l3r5u12dl11u5l42d4l11u6d14Ud23u8r18d11
r17u5r5u7l14R2l6u13r6u5r23d14
EOL
0010BDEF
r17u
6l26u6dl27r2u29r6
EOL
0010BEBA
r7u12r6u12r4s7Ss2ld10l7d11l21u11l6u10l11u12l6u10r20Lr6d25r15
u19r5u10l41d16l13d9r7d6U2d8l6d10r27u4r2
EOL
0010C14D
r14u4d2r4u4r7d4r13u5l5u5r6u24d2l4d12l5
EOL
0010C24C
r16u20d2r5l17u4l13R2l3u13d17l26u30
EOL
*
amj
-----

As for the other missing files (the screenshots from future versions)
you'll just have to wait and see...





Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:06:50 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Cheats

How do the members of this list feel about cheating on Digger?

I think that cheating tends to
destroy a game: there are many games which
I used to play a lot but once I
found the cheats there didn't seem to be
much point any more. However, it could
be a life saver if you are really
addicted to a game!

Anyway, I have thought of an elegant and extremely simple way to implement
a cheat: so simple that some might not even consider it a cheat (although
since it can be used to get scores as high as you like, it really is). I'm
sure you're all dying to know what I'm going on about now, so I'll tell
you: I could implement a hot key so that while a DRF is playing, you can
press the key and take over. This effectively gives you a method of
storing your position and restoring it later. So if you die you could just
replay until just before you died, then take over and go a different way.
It would be tedious, but it would work. However, DRFs created like this
would have to be excluded from the Hall of Fame, for obvious reasons! (And
talking of the Hall of Fame, when are all your DRFs going to come rolling
in???...)

On a slightly different matter, does anyone think that being able to
change the game speed in real time would be a cheat? Obviously Digger is
harder to play at faster speeds, but does it really get easier at slower
ones? Let me know what you think: if it is deemed harmless, I can put in
this feature immediately.





Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:16:54 +0200
From:
Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Subject: Re: Web site


Works like a champ Andrew!!

I'm having a great time watching the demo and learning some new tricks.
And I thought I was doing well at 7100 points per first screen. 8->

If you are having trouble with your website, I have space on mine or we
could start another one on a site for digger alone.  (Geocities or such) I'm
hoping to send out a general announcement to the newlist subscription today or
Saturday night to let the Net know we exist.  Any suggestions?

Avi


At 00:53
16/10/98 +0100, you wrote:
>From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>I feel I should apologies for some missing stuff on the website. I'm
>having trouble uploading it.
>
>I think that binaries should be excluded from this list to prevent anyone
>from accidentally sending something really big to lots of people, however
>new format DRFs are not strictly binaries, so they're okay, and here's the
>one that should be on the web page. To extract this from the email
>message, copy everything between (but not including) the "-----"
>lines and paste it into a new text file (e.g. in Notepad). Then save the
>file as something like AMJ66700.DRF and run the command
>"DIGGER /P:AMJ66700.DRF". This is the first time (to my knowledge) a
>new-format DRF has been sent by email like this, so I'd be interested to
>know if it works for everyone.







Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:24:36 +0200
From:
Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Subject: Re: Cheats


Andrew,

Not so sure I'd call this a cheat. Cheats are used for testing a software and
not taken out after the QA department is done with it.  These generally stop
any interaction to stop the game or allows jumping from level to level.  I'd
love to see the hotkey or better yet see if it were possible to impliment a
save key and have Hall of Fame scores for each level.

Also playing a slower Digger is generally tedious and boring.  Definitely
not easier.  However, the speed of Pentium is out of my range in this
upgrade level of my body.  ;-)

Avi


At
01:06 16/10/98 +0100, you wrote:
>From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>How do the members of this list feel about cheating on Digger?
>
>I think that cheating tends to destroy a game: there are many games which
>I used to play a lot but once I found the cheats there didn't seem to be
>much point any more. However, it could be a life saver if you are really
>addicted to a game!
>
>Anyway, I have thought of an elegant and extremely simple way to implement
>a cheat: so simple that some might not even consider it a cheat (although
>since it can be used to get scores as high as you like, it really is). I'm
>sure you're all dying to know what I'm going on about now, so I'll tell
>you: I could implement a hot key so that while a DRF is playing, you can
>press the key and take over. This effectively gives you a method of
>storing your position and restoring it later. So if you die you could just
>replay until just before you died, then take over and go a different way.
>It would be tedious, but it would work. However, DRFs created like this
>would have to be excluded from the Hall of Fame, for obvious reasons! (And
>talking of the Hall of Fame, when are all your DRFs going to come rolling
>in???...)
>
>On a slightly different matter, does anyone think that being able to
>change the game speed in real time would be a cheat? Obviously Digger is
>harder to play at faster speeds, but does it really get easier at slower
>ones? Let me know what you think: if it is deemed harmless, I can put in
>this feature immediately.
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------
--------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages.  Visit
>http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>
>






Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:31:57
+0200
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Subject: Scores and
strategies


Would you happen to remember what is the hotkey to change the game to two
players on the beginning screen?

Avi
p.s. what other tidbits of info do you have for us that is "generally well
known"?
;-)

At 00:41 16/10/98 +0100,
you wrote:
>From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>> Myself, on the first screen I consider it a good level when I reach 7, 100
>> points with the bonus level.
>
><g> I consider it a failure unless I get maximum points (8650)!
>
>> Also for every 20,000 points the player scores, he/she gets another life.
>
>This is pretty well known. A more interesting question would be what is
>the average level at which people reach this score? I usually get it when
>getting the bonus on level 3.







Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:51:41 +0200
From: Avi Ben
Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Subject: One player vs. Two player


THE ESCAPE KEY!!
THE ESCAPE KEY!!
THE ESCAPE KEY!!

Yes!

Avi


At 07:31 16/10/98 +0200, you wrote:
>From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
>Would you happen to remember what is the hotkey to change the game to two
>players on the beginning screen?
>Avi








Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:25:42 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Cheats

>Not so sure I'd call this a cheat.
>Cheats are used for testing a software and not taken out after the QA
>department is done with it.  These generally stop any interaction to stop
>the game or allows jumping from level to level.

That doesn't explain why so many of them are left in the release version of the
game (surely not by accident), or why some games have cheats which (a) do
things which you wouldn't need to do to test software or (b) have fancy
interfaces and things. I have put cheats in games I've written simply to feel
superior to those players who don't know about them... ;-) (Not in Digger,
though, in Cool Dude.)

>I'd love to see the hotkey
>or better yet see if it were possible to impliment a save key and have Hall
>of Fame scores for each level.

There is a save key, it's F10 (unless you're already at the title screen) and
then F8, which saves the entire game just played in a file called DIGGER.DAT
(or something else if you gave a different name on the command line). What I'm
talking about is a "restore" function (playback) that will let you continue
playing. I think the best thing for me to do is to implement it but prevent
the program from recording played back games. That would prevent you from
saving and restoring the same game twice, but would also prevent people
cheating on the "Hall of Fame".

>Also playing a slower Digger is generally tedious and boring.  Definitely
>not easier.

Okay, I'll put that in Real Soon.

>However, the speed of Pentium is out of my range in this
>upgrade level of my body.  ;-)

I don't understand.

Andrew





Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:25:58 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Scores and strategies

>Would you happen to remember what is the hotkey to change the game to two
>players on the beginning screen?
>
>Avi
>p.s. what other tidbits of info do you have for us that is "generally well
>known"?
>;-)

This info, the extra life score and lots of other
interesting-but-ultimately-useless bits and pieces are on the website at
"http://fly.to/digger", particularly in the "How to play" and FAQ pages.

Andrew





Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:26:17 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Web site

>Works like
a champ Andrew!!

Fantastic.

>I'm having a great time watching the demo and learning some new tricks.
>And I thought I was doing well at 7100 points per first screen. 8->

Well, 7100 points is pretty good for a beginner... :-) What is your high score,
by the way?

>If you are having trouble with your website, I have space on mine or we
>could start another one on a site for digger alone.  (Geocities or such)

I'm quite happy with the site on Oldskool - it's a nice place and a fitting
home. The problems seem to be fixed now. I did have the site on Xoom.com (much
better than Geocities: the adverts are only for Xoom and much more discrete)
and before that on my own site, so I can always go back to one of those if I
ever have serious problems with the current site (which I'm sure will never
happen, Jim... ;-)

>I'm hoping to send out a general announcement to the newlist subscription
>today or Saturday night to let the Net know we exist.  Any suggestions?

Good idea, it would be nice to see some messages from people other than you and
me on this list! Hopefully some more of the people from the Digger Update
mailing list will join soon.

Andrew







Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:24:01 +0200
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Subject: Re: Digger update


FYI


>X-POP3-Rcpt: benzev@kinneret
>Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:14:40 +0100 (BST)
>From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>To: Greg Powell <gpowell@engr.uvic.ca>, Chris <applebeatle@hotmail.com>,
>        Russell Youngblood <russelly@hotmail.com>,
>        Rami Pitzhadza <ramip@ibm.net>, Pamela Malka <nak@hadassah.org.il>,
>        Ori Varon <theboom@actcom.co.il>,
>        Norman Smart <normans@aviation.denel.co.za>,
>        Maarten Kramer <Maarten.Kramer@mail.ing.nl>,
>        Aycan Gulez <gulez@narwhal.cc.metu.edu.tr>,
>        Vincent D Nunes <vinman13@juno.com>,
>        Dharmendra Rana <d.rana@student.qut.edu.au>,
>        Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>,
>        Mariusz Artur Borkowski <mborkows@elka.pw.edu.pl>,
>        Aleksi Muukkonen <dummykey@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Digger update
>Organization: Queens' College; U of Cambridge; UK
>X-X-Sender: amj25@imap.hermes.cam.ac.uk
>
>The latest version of Digger, available from http://fly.to/digger is a
>minor bug fix from yesterday's release. The keyboard now works more that
>it did in the original. Also, some new features have been added: you can
>change the speed of the game with the + and - keys, and take control of a
>game which is being played back by pressing Ctrl-T.
>
>A RiscOS version of Digger is also now available.
>
>Andrew
>
>






Date: Sat, 17 Oct
1998 22:57:52 +0200
From: "Ayal Telem"
<atelem@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Scores and strategies

The Esc key toggles between 1 and 2 players, but you knew that already.  F7
toggles the music.  F9 toggles the sound.  F10 to exit.  Space bar to pause.
And I learned it all from Digger.txt .  Keep on playing.

Ayal


-----Original
Message-----
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 7:39 AM
Subject: [digger] Scores and strategies


>From: Avi Ben Zev
<benzev@kinneret.co.il>
>
>
>Would you happen to remember what is the hotkey to change the game to two
>players on the beginning screen?
>
>Avi
>p.s. what other tidbits of info do you have for us that is "generally well
>known"?
>;-)
>
>At 00:41 16/10/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>>
>>> Myself, on the first screen I consider it a good level when I reach 7,100
>>> points with the bonus level.
>>
>><g> I consider it a failure unless I get maximum points (8650)!
>>
>>> Also for every 20,000 points the player scores, he/she gets another life.
>>
>>This is pretty well known. A more interesting question would be what is
>>the average level at which people reach this score? I usually get it when
>>getting the bonus on level 3.
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>







Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:11:19 +0200
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Subject: Re: Scores and strategies


Your call this PLAY?? Competition is ON!!

Avi


At 22:57 17/10/98
+0200, you wrote:
>From: "Ayal Telem" <atelem@internet-zahav.net>
>
>The Esc key toggles between 1 and 2 players, but you knew that already.  F7
>toggles the music.  F9 toggles the sound.  F10 to exit.  Space bar to pause.
>And I learned it all from Digger.txt .  Keep on playing.
>
>Ayal







Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:54:53 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Scores and strategies

> And I learned it all from Digger.txt .  Keep on playing.

And, as I'm sure you know, Digger.txt is almost exactly the same as the Digger
website (it has the same info, anyway).





Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:56:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Scores and strategies

> Your call this PLAY??
> Competition is ON!!
>
>
Avi

Come on then, do your best: download the latest version and let's see
your DRF.

<g>

Andrew






Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:23:15 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Bits and pieces

Is there anyone on this email list who is (or thinks they might be) still
on the Digger Update mailing list? There's no point being on both since
Digger Updates will be sent to both mailing lists. The update mailing list
is really only for people who want to find out when new versions arrive
but don't want to generally chat about Digger.

The other thing was: Avi, how's that Windows version of Digger coming
along? I haven't heard a peep from you since I sent you the source
code.

Andrew







Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:45:59 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger update

The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org has several
minor new features and bug fixes, and one major new feature: you can now
redefine the keyboard and play the game with your choice of keys.

Keep Digging,


Andrew






Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:27:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger update

The latest version of Digger, available at www.digger.org fixes a minor bug in
previous versions which caused the program to become jerky after the first
game.

Andrew






Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:07:29 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger Update

The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org has a
new gameplay mode, Gauntlet, where you have infinite lives but a fixed
time to score as many points as possible.

Andrew





Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:57:02 PST
From: "Marc West" <westius@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Bug

Hello

In the version Ive got of digger, sometimes theres a bug on level 6 and
when that level repeats. The characters skip to the bottom of the screen
sometimes, but it doesnt show up in the DRFs, it just looks like they
all move there in normal time.

Marc




Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:48:29 +0100
From:
Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Bug

At 19:57 25.11.98 PST, you wrote:
>From: "Marc West" <westius@hotmail.com>
>
>Hello
>
>In the version Ive got of digger, sometimes theres a bug on level 6 and
>when that level repeats. The characters skip to the bottom of the screen
>sometimes, but it doesnt show up in the DRFs, it just looks like they
>all move there in normal time.
>
>Marc

Hello Marc,

I've noticed the same bug sometimes but I do not know what levels are
effected. Maybe in the neweset version of digger the bug is fi xed ?
Andrew writes on the digger-web-page at the point "What's new": 18 Nov
1998: Minor timing bug fixed. Major timing bug caused by fixing minor
timing bug fixed.

Diethelm Albert
Kabus





Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:52:24 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Bug

> At 19:57 25.11.98 PST, Marc West wrote:
>
> >In the version Ive got of digger, sometimes theres a bug on level 6 and
> >when that level repeats. The characters skip to the bottom of the screen
>
>sometimes, but it doesnt show up in the DRFs, it just looks like they
>
>all move there in normal time.
> >
> >Marc

Hmm, strange. I've not had this problem. Are you running under:
1) Plain DOS
2) an MS-DOS session
under Windows 3.x or 9x
3) Windows NT or OS/2 ?
Also do you have the sound and/or background music on when this happens?

It sounds like a timing bug, as it's not being recorded, but I'm
completely mystified as to why it only happens on level 6.

On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Diethelm Kabus wrote:
> I've noticed the same bug sometimes but I do not know what levels are
> effected. Maybe in the neweset version of digger the bug is fixed ?
> Andrew writes on the digger-web-page at the point "What's new": 18 Nov
> 1998: Minor timing bug fixed. Major timing bug caused by fixing minor
> timing bug fixed.

Those shouldn't have caused or fixed this, but try the latest version
anyway - if you can't reproduce the bug with it then it's not a problem
any more.

The minor timing bug that was fixed was to fix the jerkiness which
happened when you started a new game after finishing one without exiting
to the operating system first. Unfortunately I didn't test the
bug-fixed version and it crashed upon finishing the first game, so I had
to release another version quickly. I don't think anyone downloaded this
broken version, though.

Andrew





Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:47:04 +0100
From: "Jan Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger Update

Hmm, strange, I've never encountered that bug... It could be related due to
the fact I do not often visit level 6 ;)

I always play it in a msdos-box  under Win98.

Jan

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Aan: Digger Update Mailing List: ; <Digger Update Mailing List: ;>
Datum: woensdag 25 november 1998 14:15
Onderwerp: [digger] Digger Update


>From: Andrew M Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org has a
>new gameplay mode, Gauntlet, where you have infinite lives but a fixed
>time to score as many points as possible.
>
>Andrew
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>






Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:48:30 PST
From: "Marc West" <westius@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Bug

Hello

Im running under Windows 95 when this happens. Ive played this version on 2
computers, the other being run under Windows 98, and it hasnt happened on this
one, but I dont play it much here. Background music does happen thru out the
game, and when this happens its like its on fast forward, the music also. This
happens very quickly.

And I havent noticed it on the newest version with the Gauntlet mode -
which I think is excellent - but I have not tried that one much yet.

Thanks
Marc






Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:17:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Bug

I'm afraid I can't support Digger running under Windows - you really need to
restart in MS-DOS mode for it to work properly. Windows really messes up the
timer code Digger uses. Eventually there will be a Windows version of Digger
which won't have these problems. You may have some success if you turn off all
the sound and music before the game starts with the /Q option on the command
line.

I suppose I could put back the old timing code, which seemed to work
better with Windows, but this was less consistent on old machines and
between different machines. Alternatively I could synchronize the timing to
the screen refresh rate, which should have no compatibility problems, but it
will give you less control over the speed and still won't necessarily be
consistent, because some graphics cards use different refresh rates even for
the standard CGA and VGA modes.

Andrew





Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 08:03:18 PST
From:
Yehoshua Friedman <friedy@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Bug


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Date: 28/11/98 Time: 19:45:09 
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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:49:33 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger update

The latest version of Digger, available at http://www.digger.org has a
minor bugfix for the saving of scores in Gauntlet mode. There are also some
new command line options for anyone who has been having problems with the game
being jerky. More information on how to use these is in the text file, or the
FAQ section of the website.

Keep digging,


Andrew





Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 06:27:20 +0200
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Subject: Digger update

>X-POP3-Rcpt: benzev@kinneret
>Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:49:33 +0000 (GMT)
>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>To: Digger Update Mailing List:;
>Subject: Digger update
>Organization: Queens' College; U of Cambridge; UK
>X-X-Sender: amj25@imap.hermes.cam.ac.uk
>
>The latest version of Digger, available at http://www.digger.org has a
>minor bugfix for the saving of scores in Gauntlet mode. There are also
>some new command line options for anyone who has been having problems with
>the game being jerky. More information on how to use these is in the text
>file, or the FAQ section of the website.
>
>Keep digging,
>
>Andrew
>
>






Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:44:33 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: digger

Hello Andrew,

I think it would be very nice to enlarge the digger hiscore-list in the web
maybe up to 20 entries. I am very sad, that I am no longer in it.

Is the VGA-Version of digger exactly the same than the CGA-Version (Option
/C). I noticed some little pieces between digged channels which I did not
see on the VGA-Version. I think the CGA is much nicer. The colours ... and
it's the original.

A new feature you can implement would be that the recorded file that is
written when I press F8 automatically has a name that consists of the 3
initials of the player plus the score he reached. There is a problem about
scores above 100000...

Keep on digging,
		Diethelm Albert
Kabus


------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Dipl.-Ing. Diethelm Kabus             Tel:  ++49-234-9787-42
 ZN GmbH
           Fax:  ++49-234-9787-77
 Universit"atsstr. 160
mailto:kabus@zn-gmbh.com
 D-44801 Bochum
http://www.zn-gmbh.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------





Date:  Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:19:13 +0100 (MET)
From:  Mariusz Artur Borkowski <mborkows@xxxx.xx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: digger

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Diethelm Kabus wrote:

> A new feature you can implement would be that the recorded file that is
> written when I press F8 automatically has a name that consists of the 3
> initials of the player plus the score he reached. There is a problem about
> scores above 100000...

It's very good idea. I think problem with scores >=100000 can be
solved by using hex code.

                                           Mariusz
Borkowski
                              mailto:mborkows@elka.pw.edu.pl


http://home.elka.pw.edu.pl/~mborkows/
-----------------------------------------
-------------------





Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:02:50 -0000
From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: digger

>I think it would be very nice to enlarge the digger hiscore-list in the web
>maybe up to 20 entries. I am very sad, that I am no longer in it.

Nice try, Diethelm! But there are several reasons why I'm not going to do
this any time soon.
1) The original Digger's high score table had 10 entries.
2) More than 10 wouldn't fit on the animated GIF on the first page of the
website.
3) Having only 10 entries makes the table much more competitive than if it
had more.
4) Having more entries would make more work for me processing all those DRF
files.

So if you want to get on the hall of fame, you'll just have to improve your
score. Have a look at some of the recorded games of the top players - you'll
pick up some strategies which will help (I doubled my top score after seeing
the first recorded game someone sent me).

Having said that, there could be more entries if someone else was prepared
to take over the hall of fame. It's not a huge job. The person doing it will
get the fame@digger.org address and will receive about 1 DRF per day, which
has to be viewed, processed by a few programs to find out what speed it was
recorded at, and uploaded to the website. Most of the process is automatic,
but it needs to be done by someone who knows a fair bit about computers. If
anyone reading this wants to take over the reins, let me know.

>Is the VGA-Version of digger exactly the same than the CGA-Version (Option
>/C). I noticed some little pieces between digged channels which I did not
>see on the VGA-Version.

The tunnels on the VGA version should be exactly the same as the tunnels on
the CGA version (which, in turn, should be just the same as the original).
It's probably just an optical illusion, but if you can generate a screenshot
to show me what you mean, that would be good.

>I think the CGA is much nicer.

Many people who played the original agree. But having said that, a friend of
mine played the VGA version after not having played Digger at all for many
years, and said "It's exactly the same as I remember it". Then I showed him
the original, and he said "No, *that's* exactly how I remember it". His
memory was playing tricks on him!

>The colours ...

I ususally play with VGA because I prefer it (but then, I drew it). It's
also easier to see on the mono screen on my laptop.

> and it's the original.

Well, I can't beat that!

>A new feature you can implement would be that the recorded file that is
>written when I press F8 automatically has a name that consists of the 3
>initials of the player plus the score he reached.

That's a really good idea. I'll put that in a future version.

>There is a problem about scores above 100000...

>I think problem with scores >=100000 can be solved by using hex code.

Or, more simply, by just using two of the initials (leaving out the middle
if all three initials are filled in).

Andrew





Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:35:59 -0000
From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger update

The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org, has a
major new feature: two player simultaneous mode. To use it, simply start the
game with the "/2" option on the command line. There are some other changes
as well: the speed problems should be well and truly fixed now, and the
default recorded file name consists of the player's initials and score
rather than just "DIGGER".

Keep digging,


Andrew







!!!!! There were some messages here which are now missing from the archives 






Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999
21:36:01 -0000
From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger update

The latest version of Digger, available at "http://www.digger.org" fixes
some bugs in the previous version: keyboard redefinition and the old 2
player mode should now work properly. This version is also a preliminary
release for SoundBlaster support: the basic routines are in place but it
doesn't work properly yet. See the text file or the website for instructions
on how to try it out if you have a compatible sound card.

Keep Digging,


Andrew





Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 00:05:52 +0100
From: Lasse Hedegaard <laxxe@xxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger update

Hi!

I'm playing Digger from Win98.
Every time I reach the end of an level, it changes back to Windows, and it
says, that the program want's to be runned in DOS-mode...

Why? (it's not only for the new version...)

/Lasse
-- 
besg
fergusonline: http://www.fergusons.person.dk




Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 09:30:51 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger update

Hi Lasse!

You should make a seperat pif-file for digger.exe and check, that the
check-box "suggest MS-DOS mode" (in the properties of the link) is NOT marked.

Diethelm Kabus

At 00:05 06.01.1999 +0100, you wrote:
>From: Lasse Hedegaard
<laxxe@person.dk>
>
>Hi!
>
>I'm playing Digger from Win98.
>Every time I reach the end of an level, it changes back to Windows, and it
>says, that the program want's to be runned in DOS-mode...
>
>Why? (it's not only for the new version...)
>
>/Lasse
>--
>besg
fergusonline:
>http://www.fergusons.person.dk
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Dipl.-Ing. Diethelm Kabus             Tel:  ++49-234-9787-42
 ZN GmbH                               Fax:  ++49-234-9787-77
 Universit"atsstr. 160                 mailto:kabus@zn-gmbh.com
 D-44801 Bochum                        http://www.zn-gmbh.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------






Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:33:14 -0000
From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger
update

>>Hi!
>>
>>I'm playing Digger from Win98.
>>Every time I reach the end of an level, it changes back to Windows, and it
>>says, that the program want's to be runned in DOS-mode...
>>
>>Why? (it's not only for the new version...)
>>
>>/Lasse
>
>You should make a seperat pif-file for digger.exe and check, that the
>check-box "suggest MS-DOS mode" (in the properties of the link) is NOT marked.
>
>Diethelm Kabus

That's the only thing that's guaranteed to work at the moment. But if you
don't want to run Digger in MS-DOS mode, you could just try turning off the
sound by putting the /Q option on the command line: sometimes this works,
sometimes it doesn't. If you want the sound you could try the new /A option
(this works fine under Windows on my machine). You won't get the background
music, and it doesn't sound quite right at the moment, but you won't notice
this after playing for a while.

As for why: it's probably an incompatibility between Windows and the tricks
Digger uses to get nice sounds out of the PC speaker.

Andrew





Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:14:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger Update

The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org, is
another bug fix. The old 2 player mode and keyboard redefinition should
now work properly.

Keep Digging,


Andrew





Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:52:26 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Digger Update


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: Digger Update
Mailing List: ; <Digger Update Mailing List: ;>
Date:   08  1999 15:25
Subject: [digger] Digger Update


>The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org, is
>another bug fix. The old 2 player mode and keyboard redefinition should
>now work properly.


And yet I haven't been able to get the Sound Blaster routines to work
(220/5/1/22050/128).  Perhaps you forgot to enable the IRQ or something...?






Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:44:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger Update

Hi Tomer,


> >The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org, is
> >another bug fix. The old 2 player mode and keyboard redefinition should
> >now work properly.
>
> And yet I haven't been able to get the Sound Blaster routines
> to work (220/5/1/22050/128).  Perhaps you forgot to enable
> the IRQ or something...?

Took me ages to figure out I had to enable the IRQ: it's not that...

You need to separate the parameters with commas, not slashes, e.g.
"DIGGER /A:1,220,5,1,22050,128". Also, there are some values of the sample
rate which don't work at all with one or two versions (I know 9300 is
one, but I don't know if 22050 is one or not. 20000 should work fine,
though). I may also have linked in a non-working version of the PC speaker
emulator with the latest version, I'm not sure. I'll check it later and
upload another version if I did. Trouble is, I can't test the SoundBlaster
routines at the moment because I have no PC with a sound card here. A
friend of mine has, but he hasn't come back to college yet.

Andrew






Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:59:20 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Digger
Update


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   08  1999 18:44
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update


>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>Hi Tomer,


Hi Andrew...

>Took me ages to figure out I had to enable the IRQ: it's not that...


You could've asked :)

>You need to separate the parameters with commas, not slashes, e.g.
>"DIGGER /A:1,220,5,1,22050,128". Also, there are some values of the sample

Yes, I know.  I ran it as follows:

e:\development\revised\digger\digger.exe /A:1,220,5,1,22050,128

I also tried with 22000 and other stuff, but it didn't work.

>rate which don't work at all with one or two versions (I know 9300 is
>one, but I don't know if 22050 is one or not. 20000 should work fine,
>though). I may also have linked in a non-working version of the PC speaker
>emulator with the latest version, I'm not sure. I'll check it later and

Hmm, I didn't know that. I'll give it another try later.

>upload another version if I did. Trouble is, I can't test the SoundBlaster
>routines at the moment because I have no PC with a sound card here. A
>friend of mine has, but he hasn't come back to college yet.


Can't you spare 10 UKP for an SB16-compatible card?  Hmm, I would've
sent you an SB-PRO but I can't afford the shipment costs...








Date: 10 Jan 1999 14:26:59 -0000
From: amj25@xxx.xx.xx
Subject: Re: Digger Update

>>Took me ages to figure out I had to enable the
>>IRQ: it's not that...
>
>You could've asked :)

Well, I had no idea what the problem was: it could have been a sound card
specific problem.

>>You need to separate the parameters with commas,
>>not slashes, e.g. "DIGGER >>/A:1,220,5,1,22050,128". Also, there are some
>>values of the sample
>
>Yes, I know.  I ran it as follows:
>
>e:\development\revised\digger\digger.exe
>/A:1,220,5,1,22050,128
>
>I also tried with 22000 and other stuff, but it
>didn't work.

Huh. Well, I just checked the code and that should have worked. I'll take it
over to a friend's computer shortly and see if I can get it to work.

>>rate which don't work at all with one or two
>>versions (I know 9300 is one, but I don't know
>>if 22050 is one or not. 20000 should work fine,
>>though). I may also have linked in a non-working
>>version of the PC speaker emulator with the
>>latest version, I'm not sure. I'll check it
>>later and
>
>Hmm, I didn't know that.  I'll give it another
>try later.

I did upload a new version, but I didn't change the sound routines, I just
fixed a bug which caused you to lose two lives if you died whilst completing a
level. Sorry the update mail is a bit late, but my email is down at the moment.

>>upload another version if I did. Trouble is, I
>>can't test the SoundBlaster routines at the
>>moment because I have no PC with a sound card
>>here. A friend of mine has, but he hasn't come
>>back to college yet.
>
>Can't you spare 10 UKP for an SB16-compatible
>card?  Hmm, I would've sent you an SB-PRO but I
>can't afford the shipment costs...

It's not that: I don't have anywhere to plug a souncard in on my laptop. The
expansion slots are the desktop expansion base, which is too bulky and heavy to
take to university.

Andrew




Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:49:58 +0000 (GMT)
From:
Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger Update

The latest version of Digger, available at http://www.digger.org, fixes a
minor bug in the previous version while causes you to lose two lives
instead of one if you die whilst completing a level.

Andrew





Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:54:39 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger Update

>I ran it as follows:
>
>e:\development\revised\digger\digger.exe
>/A:1,220,5,1,22050,128
>
>I also tried with 22000 and other stuff, but it
>didn't work.

Well, I just took a brand new Pentium II Thinkpad with SoundBlaster
compatible clone soundcard and Windows 98, downloaded a fresh copy of
Digger from http://www.digger.org, installed it, ran it (from a DOS box with
exactly the same options, co-incidentally the soundcard was setup to use the
same values as yours) and it worked: not even any crash on level completion!
There was no background music (I know why this is: I haven't finished that part
of the code yet) but otherwise it worked really well: sounded very similar to
the original.

Everyone else on this list is being very quiet. Has anyone else tried to
use the SoundBlaster sound? Let me know if you succeeded or failed.

Andrew





Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:39:15 PST
From: "Eliyahoo Yishayoo" <ormoses@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Digger Update

>Well, I just took a brand new Pentium II Thinkpad with SoundBlaster
>compatible clone soundcard and Windows 98, downloaded a fresh copy of
>Digger from http://www.digger.org, installed it, ran it (from a DOS
>box with exactly the same options, co-incidentally the soundcard was set
>up to use the same values as yours) and it worked: not even any crash on
>level completion! There was no background music (I know why this is: I
>haven't finished that part of the code yet) but otherwise it worked really
>well: sounded very similar to the original.
>
>Everyone else on this list is being very quiet. Has anyone else tried to
>use the SoundBlaster sound? Let me know if you succeeded or failed.
>
>Andrew

Well, I just wanted to say that digger shouldn't become to a new thing,
with sound blaster, good graphics etc. Digger is great
like it is! No changes should be made!




Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:56:31 PST
From: "Michael Buzo" <michaelbuzo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Digger Update

Hi Andrew
this is mic from Sydney (my other email adress is tsunami13@hotmail.com) but
on another address. I use this one more often. When do you want to me to send
you my levels i made?

Michael


>From bounce-digger--43-michaelbuzo=hotmail.com@onelist.com Fri Jan  8 05:25:45
1999
>Received: (qmail 15212 invoked by alias); 9 Jan 1999 14:23:51 -0000
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>Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:14:37 +0000 (GMT)
>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>To: Digger Update Mailing List: ;
>Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.3.95.990108131210.39D-100000@qustud05.quns.cam.ac.uk>
>Organization: Queens' College; U of Cambridge; UK
>X-X-Sender: amj25@imap.hermes.cam.ac.uk
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>Subject: [digger] Digger Update
>
>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org, is
>another bug fix. The old 2 player mode and keyboard redefinition should
>now work properly.
>
>Keep Digging,
>
>Andrew
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>





Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:21:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger Update

Hi Eliyahoo,

> Well, I just wanted to say that digger shouldn't become to a new thing,
> with sound blaster, good graphics etc.
> Digger is great like it is! No changes should be made!

The trouble is that PC speaker is incompatible with Windows and this makes
it difficult for many people to run Digger. Also, many computers are now
shipped without internal speakers, so without SoundBlaster sound fewer and
fewer people will be able to hear Digger as it is meant to sound. But fear
not, I shall try to keep the sound effects sounding the same as they
always did, so you won't even know it's not using the PC speaker. As long
as I have control over Digger Remastered, I shall endevour to keep the
graphics, sound, gameplay and controls as similar to the original as
possible, whilst adding new features if people want them.

Andrew






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:16:36 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Subject: Re: Digger Update

At 17:54 10.01.1999 +0000, you wrote:
>Everyone else on this list is being very quiet. Has anyone else tried to
>use the SoundBlaster sound? Let me know if you succeeded or failed.

Hi Andrew,

I have tried the /A option with another interrupt, I think it was 7
(Windows 95 reported so), but it did not work. The effect was, that I could
not leave digger with F10.

The bug that sometimes (very seldom) digger runs in a very high speed for a
tenth of a second is still there. Mostley you lose one live then.

I have renamed the digger level files with another extension: .dlf instead
of the .dat . So I can configure Windows, that it would start digger with
the right options to play that level file.

Keep digging,

		Diethelm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Dipl.-Ing. Diethelm Kabus             Tel:  ++49-234-9787-42
 ZN GmbH                               Fax:  ++49-234-9787-77
 Universit"atsstr. 160                 mailto:kabus@zn-gmbh.com
 D-44801 Bochum                        http://www.zn-gmbh.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:03:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: SoundBlaster sound

Hi Diethelm,

> >Everyone else on this list is being very quiet. Has anyone else tried to
> >use the SoundBlaster sound? Let me know if you succeeded or failed.
>
> I have tried the /A option with another interrupt, I think it was 7
> (Windows 95 reported so), but it did not work. The effect was, that I could
> not leave digger with F10.

Hmm, strange. Have you double checked the port and DMA settings as well?
Did it completely crash or just not work apart from no sound and not being
able to exit with F10? When you press F10 what happens? Does it carry on
as if you didn't press it or crash?

> The bug that sometimes (very seldom) digger runs in a very high speed for a
> tenth of a second is still there. Mostley you lose one live then.

I haven't been able to reproduce this bug on any of the computers I've
tried it on. Does this bug happen when you restart in MS-DOS mode and run
Digger?

> I have renamed the digger level files with another extension: .dlf instead
> of the .dat . So I can configure Windows, that it would start digger with
> the right options to play that level file.

That's a good idea: I'll change the default extension and the extension of
the files in the extra level pack on the next upload.

Thanks,


Andrew





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:51:17 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Digger Update


-----Original Message-----
From: amj25@cam.ac.uk <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   10  1999 16:15
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update


>Huh. Well, I just checked the code and that should have worked. I'll take
it over to a friend's computer shortly and see if I can get it to work.


I tried it with the newest version and it didn't do me any good.

>It's not that: I don't have anywhere to plug a souncard in on my laptop.
The expansion slots are the desktop expansion base, which is too bulky and
heavy to take to university.


Don't follow.






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:52:46 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Digger Update

>Well, I just took a brand new Pentium II Thinkpad with SoundBlaster
>compatible clone soundcard and Windows 98, downloaded a fresh copy of
>Digger from http://www.digger.org, installed it, ran it (from a DOS
>box with exactly the same options, co-incidentally the soundcard was set
>up to use the same values as yours) and it worked: not even any crash on
>level completion! There was no background music (I know why this is: I
>haven't finished that part of the code yet) but otherwise it worked really
>well: sounded very similar to the original.


Not that coincidentally, even Creative realized IRQ 7 was a bad idea
and changed the factory default to IRQ 5.  I think 220/5/1/5/330 is the
most common setting with Sound Blaster cards.

>Everyone else on this list is being very quiet. Has anyone else tried to
>use the SoundBlaster sound? Let me know if you succeeded or failed.


Please do.






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:07:13 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   11  1999 14:03
Subject: [digger] SoundBlaster sound


>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>Hmm, strange. Have you double checked the port and DMA settings as well?
>Did it completely crash or just not work apart from no sound and not being
>able to exit with F10? When you press F10 what happens? Does it carry on
>as if you didn't press it or crash?


According to my experience, it also screws up the timing a bit.

>> I have renamed the digger level files with another extension: .dlf instead
>> of the .dat . So I can configure Windows, that it would start digger with
>> the right options to play that level file.
>
>That's a good idea: I'll change the default extension and the extension of
>the files in the extra level pack on the next upload.


What's wrong with the .DAT extension?  I've had no trouble with it.






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:16:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

>>It's not that: I don't have anywhere to plug a souncard in on my laptop.
>>The expansion slots are the desktop expansion base, which is too bulky and
>>heavy to take to university.
>
>Don't follow.

At the risk of boring the rest of the readers of this list with something
totally unrelated to Digger: As you well know, Tomer, my computer is a laptop,
and doesn't have any expansion slots where I could plug in a SoundBlaster card
even if I had one. The only way to expand it is to plug it in to a large box
called the Desktop Expansion Base, which has such slots. However, this kind of
defies the point of having a laptop at all.

>I tried it with the newest version and it didn't do me any good.
>According to my experience, it also screws up the timing a bit.

This is probably caused by the same bug as the one that's stopping the sound
from working, if the timing is right without the /A option.

If you like I'll send you the source code so you can figure out what's wrong
with it, or you can send me the source code for a working program which plays
DMA noises on your SoundBlaster and I'll figure out what I've done wrong.

>>>I have renamed the digger level files with another extension: .dlf instead
>>>of the .dat . So I can configure Windows, that it would start digger with
>>>the right options to play that level file.
>>
>>That's a good idea: I'll change the default extension and the extension of
>>the files in the extra level pack on the next upload.
>
>What's wrong with the .DAT extension?  I've had no trouble with it.

It's very over-used. As Diethelm said, if you change it to DLF then you can
set up a file association Windows to run the level file by double clicking on
it. If you tried to do the same thing with .DAT, you'd get confused with
another program's .DAT files (Regedit, for example). We could have a vote of
the people on this list: Who wants the "official" level file  extension to be
changed to .DLF and who wants it to remain as .DAT?

Actually, there was another vote I thought about having on this list, based on
what Eliyahoo Yishayoo said the other day about keeping Digger as original
as possible. Should the default screen mode be the original CGA (/C) or the
new VGA? I (and many people who didn't play the original digger) prefer the new
VGA graphics, but "hard core" digger players seem to prefer CGA. What do the
people on this list think?

Andrew





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:28:49 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   11  1999 18:20
Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound


>At the risk of boring the rest of the readers of this list with something
>totally unrelated to Digger: As you well know, Tomer, my computer is a laptop,
>and doesn't have any expansion slots where I could plug in a SoundBlaster card
>even if I had one. The only way to expand it is to plug it in to a large box
>called the Desktop Expansion Base, which has such slots. However, this kind of
>defies the point of having a laptop at all.


Yes, I see.  Don't you have PCMCIA expansion slots?

>If you like I'll send you the source code so you can figure out what's wrong
>with it, or you can send me the source code for a working program which plays
>DMA noises on your SoundBlaster and I'll figure out what I've done wrong.


Hmm, I deleted most of my older source codes (completely non-useful and
mostly cannot be run, because of Borland's idiotic old CONIO code).  You
can send me the source though, I'll have a look at the SB routines (if I can
mind TASM and TC, I formatted my HD again...)

>>What's wrong with the .DAT extension? I've had no trouble with it.
>
>It's very over-used. As Diethelm said, if you change it to DLF then you can
>set up a file association Windows to run the level file by double clicking on
>it. If you tried to do the same thing with .DAT, you'd get confused with
>another program's .DAT files (Regedit, for example). We could have a vote of
>the people on this list: Who wants the "official" level file extension to be
>changed to .DLF and who wants it to remain as .DAT?


Viva la DLF, then. :)  Perhaps you should write a generic .DGR file with a
header, and then you can have Digger plugins and that sort of stuff...  if
you want, I could possibly write a DLL-like routine.

>Actually, there was another vote I thought about having on this list, based on
>what Eliyahoo Yishayoo said the other day about keeping Digger as original as
>possible. Should the default screen mode be the original CGA (/C) or the new
>VGA? I (and many people who didn't play the original digger) prefer the new
VGA
>graphics, but "hard core" digger players seem to prefer CGA. What do the
people
>on this list think?


I like CGA too, but too few people read this list so this doesn't make for a
fair voting.  Besides, most people who read this list aren't lazy enough to
complain about having to write /C every time they run Digger... or are we?






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:31:49 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

Dear Andrew,

At 16:16 11.01.1999 +0000, you wrote:
>>>>I have renamed the digger level files with another extension: .dlf instead
>>>>of the .dat . So I can configure Windows, that it would start digger with
>>>>the right options to play that level file.
>>>
>>>That's a good idea: I'll change the default extension and the extension of
>>>the files in the extra level pack on the next upload.
>>
>>What's wrong with the .DAT extension?  I've had no trouble with it.
>
>It's very over-used. As Diethelm said, if you change it to DLF then you can
>set up a file association Windows to run the level file by double clicking on
>it. If you tried to do the same thing with .DAT, you'd get confused with
>another program's .DAT files (Regedit, for example). We could have a vote of
>the people on this list: Who wants the "official" level file extension to be
>changed to .DLF and who wants it to remain as .DAT?

Of course I want the file extension to be changed to .dlf

>Actually, there was another vote I thought about having on this list, based on
>what Eliyahoo Yishayoo said the other day about keeping Digger as original as
>possible. Should the default screen mode be the original CGA (/C) or the new
>VGA? I (and many people who didn't play the original digger) prefer the new
VGA
>graphics, but "hard core" digger players seem to prefer CGA. What do the
people
>on this list think?

I think it is ok, when new features in digger are optional. I think
starting digger without parameters should bring the original digger on the
screen with CGA-Graphics and PC-speaker sound. But it would be very nice
when new features can be invoked with special command line parameters such
as Soundblaster-sound or gauntlet-mode. But these new features should not
manipulate the speed of digger or something else. The default graphic-mode
should be CGA and not VGA.

Is anyone interested in the entry I've made in the windows-registry for the
extensions .dlf and .drf ?

Ok, that's enough for today! I must stop working and go to my wife and my
children.

Keep digging,

		Diethelm




Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:37:06 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound


-----Original Message-----
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   11  1999 18:33
Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound


>From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
>
>Dear Andrew,
>
>I think it is ok, when new features in digger are optional. I think
>starting digger without parameters should bring the original digger on the
>screen with CGA-Graphics and PC-speaker sound. But it would be very nice
>when new features can be invoked with special command line parameters such
>as Soundblaster-sound or gauntlet-mode. But these new features should not
>manipulate the speed of digger or something else. The default graphic-mode
>should be CGA and not VGA.


I disagree.  I'd like many people as possible to play Digger, and some would
simply delete it if they've seen the CGA graphics.

Maybe we should have a setup program?  I can whip oneup.






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:46:44 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

Dear Toner,

>>I think it is ok, when new features in digger are optional. I think
>>starting digger without parameters should bring the original digger on the
>>screen with CGA-Graphics and PC-speaker sound. But it would be very nice
>>when new features can be invoked with special command line parameters such
>>as Soundblaster-sound or gauntlet-mode. But these new features should not
>>manipulate the speed of digger or something else. The default graphic-mode
>>should be CGA and not VGA.
>
>I disagree.  I'd like many people as possible to play Digger, and some would
>simply delete it if they've seen the CGA graphics.
>

These people would delete digger with VGA too. Is it a purpose to get as
much people as possible to play digger? Then Andrew has to programm a new
3D-Digger with 16.7 Million colors that only runs on a 400 MHz Pentium with
32 MB RAM and AGP-graphic-card.

Diethelm




Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:52:12 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

Hi Tomer,

>Yes, I see.  Don't you have PCMCIA expansion slots?

No, the computer's too old for that.

>>If you like I'll send you the source code so you can figure out what's
>>wrong with it, or you can send me the source code for a working program
>>which plays DMA noises on your SoundBlaster and I'll figure out what
>>I've done wrong.
>

>Hmm, I deleted most of my older source codes (completely non-useful and
>mostly cannot be run, because of Borland's idiotic old CONIO code). You
>can send me the source though, I'll have a look at the SB routines (if I can
>mind TASM and TC, I formatted my HD again...)

Okay (sent via email).

>>>What's wrong with the .DAT extension?  I've had no trouble with it.
>>
>>It's very over-used. As Diethelm said, if you change it to DLF then you
>>can set up a file association Windows to run the level file by double
>>clicking on it. If you tried to do the same thing with .DAT, you'd get
>>confused with another program's .DAT files (Regedit, for example). We
>>could have a vote of the people on this list: Who wants the "official"
>>level file extension to be changed to .DLF and who wants it to remain as
>>.DAT?
>
>Viva la DLF, then. :)  Perhaps you should write a generic .DGR file with a
>header, and then you can have Digger plugins and that sort of stuff...
>if you want, I could possibly write a DLL-like routine.

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I wonder what plugins could be
introduced. I think Digger's small enough that new features can be added
in directly to the executable. The only thing I can think of is that when
Digger has network support and you can have a game with more than 2
players, that players might like to design their own Digger sprites (for
international competitions, for example, each player's Digger might be
decorated with the flag of that player's country).

>>Actually, there was another vote I thought about having on this list, based
>>on what Eliyahoo Yishayoo said the other day about keeping Digger as
>>original as possible. Should the default screen mode be the original CGA
>>(/C) or the new VGA? I (and many people who didn't play the original
>>digger) prefer the new VGA graphics, but "hard core" digger players seem
>>to prefer CGA. What do the people on this list think?
>
>I like CGA too, but too few people read this list so this doesn't make for a
>fair voting. Besides, most people who read this list aren't lazy enough
>to complain about having to write /C every time they run Digger... or are
>we?

Well, last time I looked there were 22 people on this list. I guess they
all read it, even if most of them don't contribute very often. (Not that
there's anything wrong with that: I'm a terrible lurker, everywhere
except here...)

>I disagree.  I'd like many people as possible to play Digger, and some
>would simply delete it if they've seen the CGA graphics.

That's the other side of the argument.

>Maybe we should have a setup program?  I can whip one up.

That's a good idea. Then I'll build that into Digger...

Andrew





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:57:21 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   11  1999 18:52
Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound


>>Yes, I see.  Don't you have PCMCIA expansion slots?
>
>No, the computer's too old for that.


Ah.

>>Hmm, I deleted most of my older source codes (completely non-useful and
>>mostly cannot be run, because of Borland's idiotic old CONIO code).  You
>>can send me the source though, I'll have a look at the SB routines (if I can
>>mind TASM and TC, I formatted my HD again...)
>
>Okay (sent via email).


I'll give it a look in a couple of minutes, then.  Why aren't you on ICQ, btw?

>>Viva la DLF, then. :)  Perhaps you should write a generic .DGR file with a
>>header, and then you can have Digger plugins and that sort of stuff...
>>if you want, I could possibly write a DLL-like routine.
>
>Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I wonder what plugins could be
>introduced. I think Digger's small enough that new features can be added
>in directly to the executable. The only thing I can think of is that when
>Digger has network support and you can have a game with more than 2
>players, that players might like to design their own Digger sprites (for
>international competitions, for example, each player's Digger might be
>decorated with the flag of that player's country).


I think plugins are a good idea - you can add graphics, change graphics,
add monsters and that sort of thing.

>>I like CGA too, but too few people read this list so this doesn't make for a
>>fair voting. Besides, most people who read this list aren't lazy enough
>>to complain about having to write /C every time they run Digger... or are
>>we?
>
>Well, last time I looked there were 22 people on this list. I guess they
>all read it, even if most of them don't contribute very often. (Not that
>there's anything wrong with that: I'm a terrible lurker, everywhere
>except here...)


Hehe...

>>I disagree.  I'd like many people as possible to play Digger, and some
>>would simply delete it if they've seen the CGA graphics.
>
>That's the other side of the argument.


Hmm, I guess it is. What's your point?

>>Maybe we should have a setup program?  I can whip one up.
>
>That's a good idea. Then I'll build that into Digger...


Yes. Turbo C and Assembler...  no graphics...  I'll see what I can do.





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:58:47 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

>>I disagree.  I'd like many people as possible to play Digger, and some would
>>simply delete it if they've seen the CGA graphics.
>
>These people would delete digger with VGA too. Is it a purpose to get as
>much people as possible to play digger? Then Andrew has to programm a new
>3D-Digger with 16.7 Million colors that only runs on a 400 MHz Pentium with
>32 MB RAM and AGP-graphic-card.


Not really, and not really.  First off, a lot of people play digger where I
live. Second, I don't think Andrew has the time (and machine) to code such
a thing on...






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:14:21 +0100
From: "Jan Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

Hi,
I play Digger myself frequently (also in the distant past)... But I must insist
Andrew to make a 3D version of Digger :) That would seriously rock, and would
see gigantic succes methinks...


-----Original Message-----
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date: maandag 11 januari 1999 17:59
Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound


>From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>
>
>>>I disagree.  I'd like many people as possible to play Digger, and some
>would
>>>simply delete it if they've seen the CGA graphics.
>>
>>These people would delete digger with VGA too. Is it a purpose to get as
>>much people as possible to play digger? Then Andrew has to programm a new
>>3D-Digger with 16.7 Million colors that only runs on a 400 MHz Pentium with
>>32 MB RAM and AGP-graphic-card.
>
>
>Not really, and not really.  First off, a lot of people play digger where I
>live.
>Second, I don't think Andrew has the time (and machine) to code such
>a thing on...
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>




Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:13:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

Hi Diethelm,

> Is anyone interested in the entry I've made in the windows-registry for the
> extensions .dlf and .drf ?

If you send instructions for how to add these entries, I'll put them on the
website.

>>I disagree.  I'd like many people as possible to play Digger, and some
>>would simply delete it if they've seen the CGA graphics.
>
>These people would delete digger with VGA too. Is it a purpose to get as
>much people as possible to play digger? Then Andrew has to programm a new
>3D-Digger with 16.7 Million colors that only runs on a 400 MHz Pentium
>with 32 MB RAM and AGP-graphic-card.

Well, as we all know there are people who run games simply to show off how
good their computer is... But yes, I do want as many people to play Digger
as possible. I think a Truecolour, 3D Digger may be a possibility for the
future (although how to make it true to the original as well I have
no idea!)

Andrew





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:13:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

Hi Tomer,

> >>Hmm, I deleted most of my older source codes (completely non-useful and
> >>mostly cannot be run, because of Borland's idiotic old CONIO code).  You
> >>can send me the source though, I'll have a look at the SB routines (if I
> can
> >>mind TASM and TC, I formatted my HD again...)
> >
> >Okay (sent via email).
>
> I'll give it a look in a couple of minutes, then.  Why aren't you on ICQ,
> btw?

Because I'm at university. I'm typing this on an ancient IBM PS/2 running
PC-Pine under OS/2. I don't think there's an ICQ client that it will run.

> I think plugins are a good idea - you can add graphics, change graphics,
> add monsters and that sort of thing.

I'm not really sure what the scope of this plug-in idea is. How could you
use it to add monsters? That would require changing the actual executable.

> >>I disagree.  I'd like many people as possible to play Digger, and some
>
>>would simply delete it if they've seen the CGA graphics.
> >
>
>That's the other side of the argument.
>
> Hmm, I guess it is. What's your point?

Well, I'm trying to gauge some opinion from this list as to which side of
the argument is the stronger one. Should the game look as modern as
possible or as original as possible when you first download and play it? I
already know what the opinion of you and Diethelm is, and I can guess what
Eliyahoo will say, but what does everyone else think?

> >>Maybe we should have a setup program?  I can whip one up.
> >
> >That's a good idea. Then I'll build that into Digger...
>
> Yes.  Turbo C and Assembler...  no graphics...  I'll see what
> I can do.

Or use the graphics from Digger...

>>These people would delete digger with VGA too. Is it a purpose to get as
>>much people as possible to play digger? Then Andrew has to programm a
>>new 3D-Digger with 16.7 Million colors that only runs on a 400 MHz
>>Pentium with 32 MB RAM and AGP-graphic-card.
>
>Not really, and not really.  First off, a lot of people play digger where I
>live.
>Second, I don't think Andrew has the time (and machine) to code such
>a thing on...

Not yet, anyway...

Andrew





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:46:34 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound


-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Van Nieuwenhove <Jan_VN@turboline.be>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   11  1999 19:11
Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound


>From: "Jan Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@turboline.be>
>
>Hi, I play Digger myself frequently (also in the distant past)...
>But I must insist Andrew to make a 3D version of Digger :)
>That would seriously rock, and would see gigantic succes methinks...


With all due respect to Andrew, neither him nor I have the
resources.  If the project does go underway, I would happily join
though.






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:48:41 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   11  1999 19:15
Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound


>Well, as we all know there are people who run games simply to show off how
>good their computer is... But yes, I do want as many people to play Digger
>as possible. I think a Truecolour, 3D Digger may be a possibility for the
>future (although how to make it true to the original as well I have no
>idea!)


How would you write a 3D Digger?  I mean, even with a good concept,
you need both lots of equipment, lots of knowledge about linear
algebra (which I'm sure you already have) and different APIs.  Coding a
trifiller and writing an entire OpenGL 3D engine are wildly different, mind
you.






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:51:33 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   11  1999 19:17
Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound


>>I'll give it a look in a couple of minutes, then.  Why aren't you on ICQ,
>> btw?
>
>Because I'm at university. I'm typing this on an ancient IBM PS/2 running
>PC-Pine under OS/2. I don't think there's an ICQ client that it will run.


That's weird.

>> I think plugins are a good idea - you can add graphics, change graphics,
>> add monsters and that sort of thing.
>
>I'm not really sure what the scope of this plug-in idea is. How could you
>use it to add monsters? That would require changing the actual executable.


Hmm, maybe when you/we actually rewrite Digger and write a kernel/server
or sorts.  I've seen the source, it's not ready yet.

>Well, I'm trying to gauge some opinion from this list as to which side of
>the argument is the stronger one. Should the game look as modern as
>possible or as original as possible when you first download and play it? I
>already know what the opinion of you and Diethelm is, and I can guess what
>Eliyahoo will say, but what does everyone else think?


Dunno.  I think a new version is best, but we must also retain the old touch -
just keep it simple and beautiful.  And include an older version, of course,
with CGA graphics and PC speaker code.

>Or use the graphics from Digger...


I can't remember how to program CGA anymore.





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:56:35 +0100
From: "Jan Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

I know creating a 3D engine is both exhausting and difficult...
nevertheless, one should always oversee his options... I think Digger is a
very favorable option, no?

-----Original Message-----
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date: maandag 11 januari 1999 18:49
Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound


>From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
>Date:   11  1999 19:15
>Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound
>
>
>>Well, as we all know there are people who run games simply to show off how
>>good their computer is... But yes, I do want as many people to play Digger
>>as possible. I think a Truecolour, 3D Digger may be a possibility for the
>>future (although how to make it true to the original as well I have no
>>idea!)
>
>
>How would you write a 3D Digger?  I mean, even with a good concept,
>you need both lots of equipment, lots of knowledge about linear
>algebra (which I'm sure you already have) and different APIs. Coding
>a trifiller and writing an entire OpenGL 3D engine are wildly different,
>mind you.
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:55:08 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Bug solved...?

Hello Andrew (and everyone).

I think I've found the bug (or one of them) which affects the Sound
Blaster routines. Notice the following code section (and send me A86
while you're at it, I don't have it on disc):

waitloop:
  ADD DX,8
  IN AL,DX
  TEST AL,080
  JNZ gotsb
  PUSH DX
  CALL _gethrt
  SUB AX,SI
  SBB DX,DI
  POP DX
  JC waitloop


It adds 8 to the port every itteration!  I don't know why it
works on other computers - perhaps their Sound Blaster-like DSP accepts
initialization with no delay, mine doesn't.

If you fix it I can see if it works.





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:55:55 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@xxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

>I know creating a 3D engine is both exhausting and difficult...
>nevertheless, one should always oversee his options... I think 3Digger is a
>very favorable option, no?


Perhaps, and perhaps not.

By the way, I'm on ICQ if you want to chat, 26898822.






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:57:24 PST
From: "Eliyahoo Yishayoo" <ormoses@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Digger Update



>Hi Eliyahoo,

Well, it's not realy Eliyahoo, it's Or.

>The trouble is that PC speaker is incompatible with Windows and this makes
>it difficult for many people to run Digger. Also, many computers are now
>shipped without internal speakers, so without SoundBlaster sound fewer and
>fewer people will be able to hear Digger as it is meant to sound. But fear
>not, I shall try to keep the sound effects sounding the same as they
>always did, so you won't even know it's not using the PC speaker. As long
>as I have control over Digger Remastered, I shall endevour to keep the
>graphics, sound, gameplay and controls as similar to the original as
>possible, whilst adding new features if people want them.
>
>Andrew
>
>
>

I realy like the way you think, and I realy like the digger game with or
without the changes.

Or Moses




Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:05:40 PST
From: "Eliyahoo Yishayoo" <ormoses@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound



>Actually, there was another vote I thought about having on this list, based on
>what Eliyahoo Yishayoo said the other day about keeping Digger as original as
>possible. Should the default screen mode be the original CGA (/C) or the new
>VGA? I (and many people who didn't play the original digger) prefer the new VGA
>graphics, but "hard core" digger players seem to prefer CGA. What do the people
>on this list think?
>
>Andrew
>
>
Hi there again,

About the default, I think you know what I feel.




Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:08:27 PST
From: "Eliyahoo Yishayoo" <ormoses@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

Hi again,


>
>I like CGA too, but too few people read this list so this doesn't make for a
>fair
>voting.  Besides, most people who read this list aren't lazy enough to
>complain
>about having to write /C every time they run Digger... or are we?
>

Well, Andrew, it seems right to vote for it in www.digger.org.
if you can put it there...

Or Moses





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:30:42 PST
From: "Eliyahoo Yishayoo" <ormoses@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Digger etc.

Hi everyone,


First, excuse me for my not bad but not good English cause I'M and Israeli
15 years old kid.

Well, Since I have a lot to say, I didn't want to answer 100 letters,
I'll write it in one mail.

1. I downloaded the new digger - It's great!
   The two player simoultaniously (is that the way you spell that?)

is a wonderful idea.

2. I think that lots of things can be do for / about digger.
   Digger theme, Digger screen saver, Digger on-line etc.

3. When I saw www.digger.org table of top 10, I thought that the top
10 should be by speed.
   I mean top10 between 1 - 5 speed, top 10 6 - 15 etc.
   I'M sure that Andrew can add a little line in the source code that
writes up in the screen when there's a playback the speed.
   The speed should be written not only in the playback in my
opinion, it will be nice to see my speed up in the screen.

4. Digger *SHOULDN'T* be thing for *most people to play*.
   I think Digger is a great game that doesn't need any 3d stuff etc.
   I have lots of friends playing Digger. We even made two digger
tournaments at my house. (speed 30 and speed 2).

5. If anyone has MP3s of the musics in the game (Popcorn, death, and
bonus) please tell me.

That's it, hope I didn't bore you much.
Thank you very much.

Or Moses
ICQ#: 9717057






Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:12:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger etc.

Hi Or,

> First, excuse me for my not bad but not good English cause I'M and
> Israeli 15 years old kid.

It's very good. I could never speak/write any foreign languages nearly
that well when I was 15 (and I'm probably even worse now)!

> Well, Since I have a lot to say, I didn't want to answer 100 letters,
> I'll write it in one mail.
>
> 1. I downloaded the new digger - It's great!
>    The two player simoultaniously (is that the way you spell that?)
> is a wonderful idea.

Thanks! Lots of people agreed when I suggested it, so I did it!

> 2. I think that lots of things can be do for / about digger.
>    Digger theme, Digger screen saver, Digger on-line etc.

If anyone can help with any of these, please tell me.

Also, if anyone on this list knows of a good networking library I could
use to add network support to Digger, I would be very interested.

> 3. When I saw www.digger.org table of top 10, I thought that the top
> 10 should be by speed.
>    I mean top10 between 1 - 5 speed, top 10 6 - 15 etc.

Hmm, I know what you mean. It does seem to be a bit easier to get higher
scores if you play at a slower speed. When I first added the speed control
I asked what people thought about this and they said this wouldn't matter,
that above speed 50 or so, slowing it down just makes it more boring, not
easier. But kudos to those who get the highest scores at the fastest
speeds: these are obviously the better players.

Maybe I will recategorise the top 10 by speed, and have one for "whatever
speed you like" as well. What does everyone else think?

>    I'M sure that Andrew can add a little line in the source code that
> writes up in the screen when there's a playback the speed.

I can't tell when players changed speed from the recorded files: I can
only work out an approximation for the average speed for a single level
(or life, if they die before the end of the level). For all I know, Dror's
amazing score might only seem to be recorded at such a slow speed because
he paused the game a lot. I could the speed information in to DRFs for a
future version, but that wouldn't help for DRFs already
recorded.

>    The speed should be written not only in the playback in my
> opinion, it will be nice to see my speed up in the screen.

Hmm, I might add this in a future version (Hey, this list is great for
brainstorming new Digger ideas).

> 4. Digger *SHOULDN'T* be thing for *most people to play*.
>    I think Digger is a great game that doesn't need any 3d stuff etc.

Well, I would like to try my hand at a 3D game sometime, and if I do, why
not base it on Digger? Everyone on this list will agree that Digger is a
great game, so why shouldn't it be opened to as wide an audience as possible?
As long as you *can* still play the game in it's original form. Okay, so Digger
3D won't really be Digger (although Digger could be embedded in it as an Easter
egg...) 

>    I have lots of friends playing Digger. We even made two digger
> tournaments at my house. (speed 30 and speed 2).

Cool!

Andrew





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:13:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: SoundBlaster sound

Hi Tomer,

> >> I'll give it a look in a couple of minutes, then.  Why aren't you on ICQ,
> >> btw?
> >
> >Because I'm at university. I'm typing this on an ancient IBM PS/2 running
> >PC-Pine under OS/2. I don't think there's an ICQ client that it will run.
>
>
That's weird.

It's a very old version of OS/2. I could use a much more 200MHz Apple Mac,
but the 25MHz 386s are faster for most things, and we're not allowed to
install software on the Macs.

> >> I think plugins are a good idea - you can add graphics, change graphics,
> >> add monsters and that sort of thing.
> >
> >I'm not really sure what the scope of this plug-in idea is. How could you
> >use it to add monsters? That would require changing the actual executable.
>
> Hmm, maybe when you/we actually rewrite Digger and write a kernel/server
> or sorts.  I've seen the source, it's not ready yet.

I've already rewritten it once... Maybe you can tell me in email what you
think needs to be done, and why.

> >Well, I'm trying to gauge some opinion from this list as to which side of
> >the argument is the stronger one. Should the game look as modern as
> >possible or as original as possible when you first download and play it? I
> >already know what the opinion of you and Diethelm is, and I can guess what
> >Eliyahoo will say, but what does everyone else think?
>

> Dunno.  I think a new version is best, but we must also retain the old
> touch -
> just keep it simple and beautiful.  And include an older version, of course,
> with CGA graphics and PC speaker code.

I'd like to keep just the one executable for all machines for as long as
is practical. At the moment, the executable file is 54,961 bytes long. The
executable for the original was 57,600. (Okay, so that wasn't compressed
with PKLITE but you get the point).

Has anyone played Digger Remastered on an 8088 or 8086 recently? I have a
funny sinking feeling that the new recording code might make it too
slow... (If it does that's easily fixed).

> >Or use the graphics from Digger...
>
> I can't remember how to program CGA anymore.

You don't need to: just use the graphics routines from Digger itself.

>How would you write a 3D Digger?  I mean, even with a good concept,
>you need both lots of equipment, lots of knowledge about linear
>algebra (which I'm sure you already have)

Don't get me started on linear algebra. One of my university courses was
on that last term: amazing how much there is to learn. The *really*
advanced stuff isn't very useful for computer graphics, though.

>and different APIs.  Coding
>a trifiller and writing an entire OpenGL 3D engine are wildly different,
>mind you.

Well, I was kind of counting on someone else doing the graphics engine
(a friend of mine was just showing me a demo of the latest things his
graphics engine is doing: he was flying a spaceship around inside a model
of a hand...)

The most difficult thing about writing Digger 3D probably won't writing
the graphics engine, but designing it so that it captures the spirit of
the original game and is still fun to play.

Anyway, it's a very long way in the future, if it happens at all.

Many thanks for the bug report: I'll fix it right away. I've sent you A86
via email.

Andrew






Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:11:05 +0200
From: shaulk@xxxxxxxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Digger Update 

1) If you ignore the sound then I was able to run digger nicely with my
linux's dosemu, both with its FreeDos version and with a native MS one.
2) Do you think that porting digger to Linux makes sense
?






Date:  Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:28:51 +0100 (MET)
From: Mariusz Artur Borkowski <mborkows@xxxx.xx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger Update

On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Andrew Jenner wrote:

>
> Everyone else on this list is being very quiet. Has anyone else tried to
> use the SoundBlaster sound? Let me know if you succeeded or failed.

I tried it with 2 sound cards:
- ESS 1869 (SB Pro compatible in hardware) - no sound,
crash when trying to quit by F10
- GUS Max (software SB 2.0 emulation) - OK.

Strange, isn't it?

                                           Mariusz Borkowski

          mailto:mborkows@elka.pw.edu.pl

http://home.elka.pw.edu.pl/~mborkows/
------------------------------------------------------------





Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:34:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger Update


Hi Shaul,

> 1) If you ignore the sound then I was able to run digger nicely with my
> linux's dosemu, both with its FreeDos version and with a native MS one.

Interesting.
 
> 2) Do you think that porting digger to Linux makes sense ?

Perhaps I should let someone with more Linux experience answer this, but I
think so, even if only so the sound works... I expect there will be other
features in the future which will work better natively than under dosemu,
such as networking.


Andrew





Date:  Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:41:01 +0100 (MET)
From: Mariusz Artur Borkowski <mborkows@xxxx.xx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger Update

On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Eliyahoo Yishayoo wrote:

> Well, I just wanted to say that digger shouldn't become to a new thing,
> with sound blaster, good graphics etc.
> Digger is great like it is! No changes should be made!

I like Digger in its original form, too. Sometimes I even play it in
grayscale mode, it's similar to display in my first computer (XT with Hercules
Monochrome). But I think Digger is worth to keep it living by adding new
features, making use of modern hardware, etc. There's nothing wrong about
changing Digger as long as there's option to play it just like the original,
and as long as it still works on old hardware.


     Mariusz Borkowski

mailto:mborkows@elka.pw.edu.pl

http://home.elka.pw.edu.pl/~mborkows/
------------------------------------------------------------





Date:  Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:53:11 +0100 (MET)
From:  Mariusz Artur Borkowski <mborkows@xxxx.xx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger Update

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, shaul wrote:

> 1) If you ignore the sound then I was able to run digger nicely with my
> linux's dosemu, both with its FreeDos version and with a native MS one.
> 2) Do you think that porting digger to Linux makes sense ?

Yes!!! It makes sense! There's a lot of "home users" among
Linux users, they often complain about lack of games.
If you are able to port Digger to Linux, just do it!


           Mariusz Borkowski

mailto:mborkows@elka.pw.edu.pl

http://home.elka.pw.edu.pl/~mborkows/
------------------------------------------------------------





Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:46:22 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger Update

The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org, should
now have working SoundBlaster sound on all SoundBlaster compatible cards.
Also the recommended extension for level data files has changed from .DAT
to .DLF.

Keep digging,


Andrew






Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:03:53 +0200
From: "Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: (no subject)

>Yes!!! It makes sense! There's a lot of "home users" among
>Linux users, they often complain about lack of games.
>If you are able to port Digger to Linux, just do it!


I suppose the biggest problems are compatibility issues.  As
soon as the Sound Blaster routines are ready, I can write an
OSS wrapper, but the graphics will be a bit tougher.  Maybe, for the
Linux version, 320x200x256 should be used, with a 4 colour fixed palette (just
enter the RGB values).

Technical help,
anyone?







Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:04:32 +0200
From: "Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: (no subject)


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   12  1999 01:34
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update


>> 2) Do you think that porting digger to Linux makes sense ?
>
>Perhaps I should let someone with more Linux experience answer this, but I
>think so, even if only so the sound works... I expect there will be other
>features in the future which will work better natively than under dosemu,
>such as networking.


Uuh, I seriously doubt that;  if we actually port Digger to Linux, then
it'll be very easy to write networking routines.  There's an IPX-TCP/IP
module both for Windows and for Linux available under GPL, so it
may  proove prudent to use it.







Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:05:05 +0200
From: "Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: (no subject)


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   12  1999 01:13
Subject: [digger] Re: SoundBlaster sound


>> >Because I'm at university. I'm typing this on an ancient IBM PS/2 running
>> >PC-Pine under OS/2. I don't think there's an ICQ client that it will run.
>>
>> That's weird.
>
>It's a very old version of OS/2. I could use a much more 200MHz Apple Mac,
>but the 25MHz 386s are faster for most things, and we're not allowed to
>install software on the Macs.


Why aren't you using a 386, or you laptop, then?

>> Hmm, maybe when you/we actually rewrite Digger and write a kernel/server
>> or sorts.  I've seen the source, it's not ready yet.
>
>I've already rewritten it once... Maybe you can tell me in email what you
>think needs to be done, and why.


The code should be more modular, hopefuly C++ (i.e. classes), which will
both make it readable and modular and will allow for overloading.

>> Dunno.  I think a new version is best, but we must also retain the old
>> touch -
>> just keep it simple and beautiful.  And include an older version, of course,
>> with CGA graphics and PC speaker code.
>
>I'd like to keep just the one executable for all machines for as long as
>is practical. At the moment, the executable file is 54,961 bytes long. The
>executable for the original was 57,600. (Okay, so that wasn't compressed
>with PKLITE but you get the point).


57600, eh?  That's a good number :)

>Has anyone played Digger Remastered on an 8088 or 8086 recently? I have a
>funny sinking feeling that the new recording code might make it too
>slow... (If it does that's easily fixed).


No, I haven't an XT anymore.  <sigh>

>> I can't remember how to program CGA anymore.
>
>You don't need to: just use the graphics routines from Digger itself.


Frankly, I don't have the patience to study the code.  It's still very messy.

>Don't get me started on linear algebra. One of my university courses was
>on that last term: amazing how much there is to learn. The *really*
>advanced stuff isn't very useful for computer graphics, though.


You don't need to know all that much - just the basic 3D stuff, vectors,
matrices, rotation, lighting models and that sort of thing. Keyframing
and curves may not be linear algebra, but they're definitely useful.

>>and different APIs.  Coding
>>a trifiller and writing an entire OpenGL 3D engine are wildly different,
>>mind you.
>
>Well, I was kind of counting on someone else doing the graphics engine
>(a friend of mine was just showing me a demo of the latest things his
>graphics engine is doing: he was flying a spaceship around inside a model
>of a hand...)


Was is any good?  What APIs does it support?

>The most difficult thing about writing Digger 3D probably won't writing
>the graphics engine, but designing it so that it captures the spirit of
>the original game and is still fun to play.


Yes, it will.

>Anyway, it's a very long way in the future, if it happens at all.


... and I doubt it will.

>Many thanks for the bug report: I'll fix it right away. I've sent you A86
>via email.


Okay, and send me the new version (either by email or just put it
online for download).

Which reminds me, my e-mail is changed - gabelj@gezernet.co.il
E-mail sent to the old address will be forwarded.






Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:05:33 +0200
From: "Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: (no subject)

>I like Digger in its original form, too. Sometimes I even
>play it in grayscale mode, it's similar to display in
>my first computer (XT with Hercules Monochrome).
>But I think Digger is worth to keep it living by adding
>new features, making use of modern hardware, etc.
>There's nothing wrong about changing Digger as long as
>there's option to play it just like the original, and as
>long as it still works on old hardware.


With the new features discussed, it will become much harder to
actually support older hardware.  I suppose Andrew endeavours to keep a
working, older version for XTs.







Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:05:50 +0200
From: "Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: (no subject)


-----Original Message-----
From: Mariusz Artur Borkowski <mborkows@elka.pw.edu.pl>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   12  1999 01:29
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update


>From: Mariusz Artur Borkowski <mborkows@elka.pw.edu.pl>
>
>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Andrew Jenner wrote:
>
>>
>> Everyone else on this list is being very quiet. Has anyone else tried to
>> use the SoundBlaster sound? Let me know if you succeeded or failed.
>
>I tried it with 2 sound cards:
>- ESS 1869 (SB Pro compatible in hardware) - no sound,
>crash when trying to quit by F10
>- GUS Max (software SB 2.0 emulation) - OK.
>
>Strange, isn't it?


Not really.  Apparently the GUS software emulation monitors ports very
well.  I've found a bug in the soundcard initialization routine, which causes
the same symptoms on my Creative Sound Blaster AWE32 (100% downwards
compatible) as it does on your ESS.

We'll fix it ASAP and see it if makes any difference.







Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:09:36 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Apologies...

Sorry about the mess I made in the mailing lists. I believe
some messages were sent twice.  This is all due to chaing
an e-mail account, and with OneList's ridiculous cookie
system, I had to mess with it for half an hour before it
worked.

Andrew - the Sound Blaster routines now work perfectly.
Was the bug I found the only one?






Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:19:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Linux Digger (mostly off topic)

Hi Tomer,

> I suppose the biggest problems are compatibility issues.  As
> soon as the Sound Blaster routines are ready,

I think they're ready already.

> I can write an OSS wrapper,

What's an OSS wrapper? (Tell me by email if it's too off topic).

> but the graphics will be a bit tougher. Maybe,
> for the Linux version, 320x200x256 should be used, with a 4
> colour fixed palette (just enter the RGB values).

Surely there must be a way to use the same graphics modes DOS Digger uses
under Linux on a PC?

>>Perhaps I should let someone with more Linux experience answer this, but
>>I think so, even if only so the sound works... I expect there will be
>>other features in the future which will work better natively than under
>>dosemu, such as networking.
>
>Uuh, I seriously doubt that;  if we actually port Digger to Linux, then
>it'll be very easy to write networking routines.

I think you misunderstood what I said. Running Digger under Dosemu is all
very well, but when Digger supports networking, that probably won't work
under Dosemu, so Digger needs to be ported to Linux.

>There's an IPX-TCP/IP module both for Windows and for Linux available
>under GPL, so it may proove prudent to use it.

But there isn't even a Windows Digger yet, despite several people who've
expressed an interest in making it.

>>>>Because I'm at university. I'm typing this on an ancient IBM PS/2
>>>>running PC-Pine under OS/2. I don't think there's an ICQ client that
>>>>it will run.
>>>
>>> That's weird.
>>
>>It's a very old version of OS/2. I could use a much more 200MHz Apple
>>Mac, but the 25MHz 386s are faster for most things, and we're not
>>allowed to install software on the Macs.
>
>Why aren't you using a 386, or you laptop, then?

I am using a 386, but a PS/2, not my laptop. My laptop isn't connected to
the internet.

>>>Hmm, maybe when you/we actually rewrite Digger and write a
>>>kernel/server or sorts.  I've seen the source, it's not ready yet.
>>
>>I've already rewritten it once... Maybe you can tell me in email what
>>you think needs to be done, and why.
>
>The code should be more modular, hopefuly C++ (i.e. classes), which will
>both make it readable and modular and will allow for overloading.

Ah, I see. Well, maybe after I get around to learing C++ (unless you or
someone else wants to do it)...

>>>Dunno.  I think a new version is best, but we must also retain the old
>>>touch - just keep it simple and beautiful.  And include an older
>>>version, of course, with CGA graphics and PC speaker code.
>>
>>I'd like to keep just the one executable for all machines for as long as
>>is practical. At the moment, the executable file is 54,961 bytes long.
>>The executable for the original was 57,600. (Okay, so that wasn't
>>compressed with PKLITE but you get the point).
>
>57600, eh?  That's a good number :)

Not that surprising when you realise that it must have been a whole number
of disk sectors on the original bootup disk.

>>> I can't remember how to program CGA anymore.
>>
>>You don't need to: just use the graphics routines from Digger itself.
>
>Frankly, I don't have the patience to study the code.  It's still very
>messy.

:-) Well, that's not entirely my fault. It has been compiled and then
decompiled back into source code again, which is never a very healthy
thing to do...

>>>and different APIs. Coding
>>>a trifiller and writing an entire OpenGL 3D engine are wildly
>>>different,
>>>mind you.
>>
>>Well, I was kind of counting on someone else doing the graphics engine
>>(a friend of mine was just showing me a demo of the latest things his
>>graphics engine is doing: he was flying a spaceship around inside a
>>model of a hand...)
>
>Was is any good?  What APIs does it support?

It was very fast and accurate, although the depth-cued lighting (that's
probably not the right technical term) is a bit dodgy at the moment. It
doesn't support any APIs, but then it isn't written for the PC, either.

>>Anyway, it's a very long way in the future, if it happens at all.
>
>... and I doubt it will.

A year ago, I doubted that Digger would ever be remastered at all. Six
months ago, I thought that two player simultaneous Digger was a pipedream.
It just goes to show that doubting something will happen is a good way of
making it happen (especially where I'm concerned...)

>Okay, and send me the new version (either by email or just put it
>online for download).

It is online for download (didn't you get the update message this
morning?)

>With the new features discussed, it will become much harder
>to actually support older hardware. I suppose Andrew
>endeavours to keep a working, older version for XTs.

As long as there are XTs in the world, I'll try to ensure that Digger runs
in the most capable way possible on them...

>>>Everyone else on this list is being very quiet. Has anyone else tried
>>>to use the SoundBlaster sound? Let me know if you succeeded or failed.
>>
>>I tried it with 2 sound cards:
>>- ESS 1869 (SB Pro compatible in hardware) - no sound,

>>crash when trying to quit by F10
>>- GUS Max (software SB 2.0 emulation) - OK.
>>
>>Strange, isn't it?
>
>Not really. Apparently the GUS software emulation monitors ports
>very well.  I've found a bug in the soundcard initialization routine,
>which causes the same symptoms on my Creative Sound Blaster AWE32
>(100% downwards compatible) as it does on your ESS.

Bugs always seem much less strange once you've found them...

>We'll fix it ASAP and see it if makes any difference.

Done! (Keep up... :-)

>Sorry about the mess I made in the mailing lists. I believe
>some messages were sent twice.  This is all due to chaing
>an e-mail account, and with OneList's ridiculous cookie
>system, I had to mess with it for half an hour before it
>worked.

I received 6 messages from you from the chat list today (including that
one), all different.

Onelist's cookie system is ridiculous, isn't it? Most other sites seem to
manage without them. The Macs here are often set up to automatically
reject cookies, which is very frustrating.

>Andrew - the Sound Blaster routines now work perfectly.
>Was the bug I found the only one?

I didn't look too carefully, but I guess so. I spent a lot of time
debugging them when I originally wrote them. I should probably go back and
make sure I didn't do anything like that anywhere else, though.

Andrew





Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:17:03 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off topic)


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   12  1999 22:19
Subject: [digger] Linux Digger (mostly off topic)


>> I suppose the biggest problems are compatibility issues. As
>> soon as the Sound Blaster routines are ready,
>
>I think they're ready already.


The music routines aren't complete.

>> I can write an OSS wrapper,
>
>What's an OSS wrapper? (Tell me by email if it's too off topic).


OSS = Open Sound System, the basic Linux sound driver.

>> but the graphics will be a bit tougher.  Maybe,
>> for the Linux version, 320x200x256 should be used, with a 4
>> colour fixed palette (just enter the RGB values).
>
>Surely there must be a way to use the same graphics modes DOS Digger uses
>under Linux on a PC?


I seriously doubt that's a good idea.  The entire idea behind Linux is
portability, and for that reason Linux allows for, but does not support,
direct hardware access. Since Linux will (generally) only run under 386s,
speed shouldn't be that much of an issue.

>>Uuh, I seriously doubt that;  if we actually port Digger to Linux, then
>>it'll be very easy to write networking routines.
>
>I think you misunderstood what I said. Running Digger under Dosemu is all
>very well, but when Digger supports networking, that probably won't work
>under Dosemu, so Digger needs to be ported to Linux.


Oh.  No, it won't.

>>There's an IPX-TCP/IP module both for Windows and for Linux available
>>under GPL, so it may proove prudent to use it.
>
>But there isn't even a Windows Digger yet, despite several people who've
>expressed an interest in making it.


That's right - as I said, the code isn't mature enough for porting yet.  You
should endevour to a complete, 100% rewrite, not just an Assembler->C port.

>>Why aren't you using a 386, or you laptop, then?
>
>I am using a 386, but a PS/2, not my laptop. My laptop isn't connected to
>the internet.


Oh.  But I thought a 386 should be powerful enough for ICQ...?

>>The code should be more modular, hopefuly C++ (i.e. classes), which will
>>both make it readable and modular and will allow for overloading.
>
>Ah, I see. Well, maybe after I get around to learing C++ (unless you or
>someone else wants to do it)...


Well, you know I'd like to, but I think it'll take too much time (and
patience) to find my way around the C code, which is currently readable
but incredibly messy.

>>57600, eh?  That's a good number :)
>
>Not that surprising when you realise that it must have been a whole number
>of disk sectors on the original bootup disk.


Interesting.

>>Frankly, I don't have the patience to study the code.  It's still very
>>messy.
>
>:-) Well, that's not entirely my fault. It has been compiled and then
>decompiled back into source code again, which is never a very healthy
>thing to do...


Why would you do such a thing?  You lost the original source code, or what?

>>Was is any good?  What APIs does it support?
>
>It was very fast and accurate, although the depth-cued lighting (that's
>probably not the right technical term) is a bit dodgy at the moment. It
>doesn't support any APIs, but then it isn't written for the PC, either.


Well, I suppose you may as well call it "fog", but depth-cue is correct.
Well, in that case such a 3D engine would definitely not do.  I might
be coaxed into writing one, if there was really a point to it (considerig
that the design is far more important.)

>>>Anyway, it's a very long way in the future, if it happens at all.
>>
>>... and I doubt it will.
>
>A year ago, I doubted that Digger would ever be remastered at all. Six
>months ago, I thought that two player simultaneous Digger was a pipedream.
>It just goes to show that doubting something will happen is a good way of
>making it happen (especially where I'm concerned...)


Than just keep doubting, I know I do :)

>It is online for download (didn't you get the update message this
>morning?)


I did, but only after I replied.  I downloaded it, works like a charm
(I didn't detect any defects in the sound either).

>>With the new features discussed, it will become much harder
>>to actually support older hardware. I suppose Andrew
>>endeavours to keep a working, older version for XTs.
>
>As long as there are XTs in the world, I'll try to ensure that Digger runs
>in the most capable way possible on them...


Yes, I think you should, but it still shouldn't limit you.

>>Not really. Apparently the GUS software emulation monitors ports
>>very well.  I've found a bug in the soundcard initialization routine,
>>which causes the same symptoms on my Creative Sound Blaster AWE32
>>(100% downwards compatible) as it does on your ESS.
>
>Bugs always seem much less strange once you've found them...


Yes, I suppose so :)

>>Sorry about the mess I made in the mailing lists. I believe
>>some messages were sent twice.  This is all due to chaing
>>an e-mail account, and with OneList's ridiculous cookie
>>system, I had to mess with it for half an hour before it
>>worked.
>
>I received 6 messages from you from the chat list today (including that
>one), all different.


Hmm, I received 12 from myself (each one doubled).  Go figure....

>Onelist's cookie system is ridiculous, isn't it? Most other sites seem to
>manage without them. The Macs here are often set up to automatically
>reject cookies, which is very frustrating.


I've set up IE4 and Netscape 4.5 to reject them as well, apparently that's
what caused the problems.

>I didn't look too carefully, but I guess so. I spent a lot of time
>debugging them when I originally wrote them. I should probably go back and
>make sure I didn't do anything like that anywhere else, though.


Don't bother wasting time, it appears to work.  If you get no further bug
reports just leave it alone.
:)






Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:31:03 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: digger

Hello Andrew,

1. The bug that digger runs in a very high speed for a short moment is also
when only MSDOS is running (without Windows in the background).

2. There's another bug (Is it also in the original digger?):
  When you do not lose any life and you have a score over 60000 there are still
  only 4 lives displayed on the top.

3. The /A-option does work not with IRQ10 but with IRQ5. I've tested both
  configurations under Windows95. Both configurations do not work under
Windows NT 4.0.

4. Adding new File Types:

	Explorer-View-Options-FileTypes
	New Type
	Description of Type: Digger
Recorded File
	Assosiated Extension: DRF
	Actions: open
	Edit:
C:\Games\Digger\Remake\Digger.exe "/S:30" "/C" "/Q" "/E:%0"
	Change Icon:
C:\Games\Digger\Remake\Digger.ico

	Explorer-View-Options-FileTypes
	New
Type
	Description of Type: Digger Level File
	Assosiated Extension:
DLF
	Actions: open
	Edit: C:\Games\Digger\Remake\Digger.exe "/C" "/Q"
"/L:%0"
	Change Icon: C:\Games\Digger\Remake\Digger2.ico

	Maybe you can put
this on the Digger-Web-Sites.

	I've put the Digger2.ico as attachment to this
e-mail.

5. For replaying all Digger Recorded Files I have the following
batch:

	:ANFANG
	FOR %%I IN (*.DRF) DO DIGGER /S:20 /Q /C /E:%%I
	GOTO
ANFANG

6. The Diskussion about different speeds in one "Hall Of Fame":

	I
think it's ok as it is. I always play with the default of 40. When I
play
at
	slower speeds it is too boring. When you have fixed and tested
your
strategy it
	is the same if you play it slow or fast. OK - you are
actually better,
when you
	play at slower speeds. A few games later (maybe 100)
you get the same
score with
	the fast speed.
	My personal hiscore is 85625
playing digger at the default speed with no
pause.
	And I get better and better
...

That's enough for today, still keep digging...

	Diethelm
Kabus



0
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:00:08 +0200
From:
cliver@xxxxxxxx.xxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Maximum spare lives = 4

I
suggest, for discussion, that there be no limit on the maximum number of 
spare
lives (also in the original digger). I feel that this will help to 
eliminate
the very boring technique of losing lives on purpose and playing 
the first
couple of levels over and over again. It of course will not 
completely
eliminate the points advantage of still purposely replaying the 
first
levels.
I also find that in the higher levels, when things go wrong, the four
lives 
that you have built up are very soon wiped out. A couple of additional

lives will be very handy to at least get out of the level that you stuffed

up!

Clive



1
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:03:49 +0100
From:
Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Maximum spare lives
= 4

At 12:00 13.01.1999 +0200, you wrote:
>From:
cliver@aviation.denel.co.za (Clive Rademan)
>
>I suggest, for discussion,
that there be no limit on the maximum number of 
>spare lives (also in the
original digger). I feel that this will help to 
>eliminate the very boring
technique of losing lives on purpose and playing 
>the first couple of
levels over and over again. It of course will not 
>completely eliminate the
points advantage of still purposely replaying the 
>first levels.
>I also
find that in the higher levels, when things go wrong, the four lives 
>that
you have built up are very soon wiped out. A couple of additional 
>lives
will be very handy to at least get out of the level that you stuffed

>up!
>
>Clive

The number of spare lives is really 5 but only 4 are
displayed
!!!

	Diethelm
----------------------------------------------------------------
--------
 Dipl.-Ing. Diethelm Kabus             Tel:  ++49-234-9787-42
 ZN GmbH
              Fax:  ++49-234-9787-77
 Universit"atsstr. 160
mailto:kabus@zn-gmbh.com
 D-44801 Bochum
http://www.zn-gmbh.com
--------------------------------------------------------
----------------











Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:30:58
+0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re:
digger


-----Original Message-----
From: Diethelm Kabus
<dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: digger@onelist.com
<digger@onelist.com>
Date:   13  1999 11:33
Subject:
[digger] digger


>1. The bug that digger runs in a very high speed for a
short moment is also
>when only
> MSDOS is running (without Windows in
the background).


Perhaps it has to do with you video card.  Has anyone else
experienced this
under MS-DOS?

>3. The /A-option does work not with IRQ10
but with IRQ5. I've tested both
> configurations under Windows95.
> Both
configurations do not work under Windows NT 4.0.


It won't work with IRQ10
because it's not supported.  I'm currently
researching
ways to support it (it
works differently than IRQ3-7).  Andrew:  Any ideas
about
the problem with
NT?






Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:09:02 +0000 (GMT)
From:
Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: digger

> >3. The
/A-option does work not with IRQ10 but with IRQ5. I've tested both
> >
configurations under Windows95.
> > Both configurations do not work under
Windows NT 4.0.
>
> It won't work with IRQ10 because it's not supported.
I'm currently
> researching
> ways to support it (it works differently
than IRQ3-7). 

Don't bother: I've already done it. I'll upload it a this
afternoon.

Andrew





Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:11:51 +0200

From: "Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: digger

>> It
won't work with IRQ10 because it's not supported.  I'm currently
>>
researching
>> ways to support it (it works differently than IRQ3-7).

>
>Don't bother: I've already done it. I'll upload it a this
afternoon.


I won't, then.  How's it done,
really?






Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:34:44 +0100
From:
"Jan Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: many e-mails

Hi
there...

I subscribed to the mailing list on 5/01/99 and already received 62
(63 actually, including this one) e-mails... that's a lot!:)

keep up the
diggin'
:)





Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:34:58 +0000 (GMT)
From:
Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger Update

The latest version
of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org,
supports sound cards with IRQ
numbers higher than 7. A bug has been fixed
regarding the number of lives you
can have in reserve at once. The Vsynch
option has been restored for those who
have had problems with the
timing.

Andrew





Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:45:10 +0100

From: "Jan Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: max. 4 diggers at
the top of the screen

Hello all,

I noticed that one could only gain 4 reserve
diggers (located at the top of the screen)... why is there a limit? it should
at least be overridable with a
command-line...





Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:39:00 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger
(mostly off topic)

Hi Digger players,

I've just figured out why none of the
messages I've been posting to this
list have appeared: my email program was set
up wrong and I was sending
replies only to the authors, not to all the list.
So, for the benefit of
the rest of you, here are all the conversational threads
you've been
missing (sorry for those of you who have read them already). Only
one
seems to have disappeared completely, the one that preceeds this
one.
Tomer, if you can find it, could you post it back to Onelist,
please?

Sorry for the glut,

Andrew


From gabelj@gezernet.co.il Wed Jan 13
14:53:51 1999
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:12:46 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel
<gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
To: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [digger] Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: Tomer Gabel <gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
Date: 
= 13 ڭӰ 1999 02:31
Subject: Re: [digger] Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)


>> The music routines aren't complete.
>
>True, but the
things I need to change to make that work will be entirely
>in C and won't
change from platform to platform, so there's no reason not
>to write an OSS
wrapper now.


True, but other stuff needs to be rewritten - timing, graphics
and likewise.
The Acorn version may have been simple enough to do, but the
Acorn
natively works on standard VGA, no?

>> >Surely there must be a
way to use the same graphics modes DOS Digger uses
>> >under Linux on
a PC?
>>
>> I seriously doubt that's a good idea.  The entire idea
behind Linux is
>> portability, and for that reason Linux allows for, but
does not support,
>> direct hardware access.  Since Linux will
(generally) only run under 386s,
>> speed shouldn't be that much of an
issue.
>
>Why not allow for both direct hardware access* as well as the
other way of
>doing it.


I suppose that's a possibility, but very very
messy.

>* To improve processor usage. Even if the game is fast enough you
want it
>to slow down your slopsucker as little as possible.


Why don't we
just convert the whole thing to native, Pentium-II optimized
assembler,
then?

>> Oh.  But I thought a 386 should be powerful enough for
ICQ...?
>
>I'm sure it is, but there hasn't been one written for this
version of
>OS/2 (It's an old one).


Ah.

>> Why would you do such a
thing?  You lost the original source code,
>> or what?
>
>I
decompiled it from the binary I had. I didn't compile it the first
time:
>Windmill software did that.


Oh, I get it.  Well, I still think it
should be rewritten over and over
again
until it's not complex and messy.  It's
generally a very simple code (or
isn't it?)

>Yes, the first thing to do is
to get the idea straight. The main problem
>is this: In 2D-Digger, you can
see the whole screen at once: where all the
>emeralds, bags and monsters
are. To make the 3D game feel right, you'd
>have to have the same properties
(you don't want to turn a corner and find
>yourself face to face with a
nobbin, or worse, have a hobbin come through
>the wall right at you, and you
don't want to have to search for that
>elusive last emerald). But how can
you have a 3D play area and yet be able

Well, it doesn't have to be first
person perspective...  or does it?

>to see all of it? The only idea I had
was to have a semi-transparent
>material as "background" and the tunnels
completely transparent. You can
>judge distance to things from (1) their
size and (2) how "fogged out" they
>are. (2) also helps you to see how many
tunnels there are between you and
>the object (if the object is crystal
sharp it means there's a void between
>the viewpoint and it. The fact that
the entire play area rotates on the

I think this is a generally good idea.
Just to help the users out,
antialiased
lines should be added to the tunnels,
so that the player can know where
the tunnel begins and where it
ends.

>screen as well (or maybe can be rotated, using the mouse or
something)
>should also help. Julian and I kicked around a few other ideas,
as well as
>some possible drawing methods, but that one seems to make the
most sense
>to me.


If you say so, I'm just a humble servant.

>Of
course, doing all that will use a lot of processor time (which is great
>if
the point is to show off powerful PCs), but it would be nice if there
>were
some different methods (wireframe tunnels for example) which meant
>that it
was scalable: it would be nice if Digger 3D worked on 386s
>upwards.


I
seriously doubt that would work.  386s are weak.  You can't do much on
a 386,
and you may as well forget appropriate lighting and depth cue -
they're very
CPU and FPU intensive, and you can't get a 3D accelerator
on an ISA
slot.

>Great! The background music is 10 times more complicated,
though.


Because it's polyphonic?  Or is that the other way around?

>>
Don't bother wasting time, it appears to work.  If you get no further
bug
>> reports just leave it alone. :)
>
>Well there's no harm in
checking. I always look for similar bugs when I
>find a bug, it has often
saved me a lot of time.


Hmm.  Perhaps.  I'll give it another
look-see.






Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:39:23 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)

Hi Tomer,

>>> The music routines aren't
complete.
>>
>>True, but the things I need to change to make that
work will be entirely
>>in C and won't change from platform to platform,
so there's no reason not
>>to write an OSS wrapper now.
>
>True,
but other stuff needs to be rewritten - timing, graphics and likewise.
>The
Acorn version may have been simple enough to do, but the Acorn
>natively
works on standard VGA, no?

No, the video memory is layed out completely
differently, hence the Acorn stuff
in MKG.C. The only similarity between Acorn
and VGA is that you can set a
640x400x16 mode.

>>> >Surely there
must be a way to use the same graphics modes DOS Digger uses
>>>
>under Linux on a PC?
>>>
>>> I seriously doubt that's a
good idea.  The entire idea behind Linux is
>>> portability, and for
that reason Linux allows for, but does not support,
>>> direct
hardware access.  Since Linux will (generally) only run under 386s,

>>> speed shouldn't be that much of an issue.
>>
>>Why
not allow for both direct hardware access* as well as the other way
of
>>doing it.
>
>I suppose that's a possibility, but very very
messy.

Well, my ideal solution would be to have one I/O module per platform,
but if
there are things that have been standardized between platforms, fair
enough,
as long as it does run at a decent speed and it looks the same
(restricting it
to CGA-style graphics is not an option.)

>>* To improve
processor usage. Even if the game is fast enough you want it
>>to slow
down your slopsucker as little as possible.
>
>Why don't we just convert
the whole thing to native, Pentium-II optimized
>assembler, then?

Because
that would prevent anyone using Linux on anything less than a P2 from
running
it, annoying some of those people and reducing the possible audience,
all for a
very small speed increase.

>>> Why would you do such a thing?  You
lost the original source code,
>>> or what?
>>
>>I
decompiled it from the binary I had. I didn't compile it the first
time:
>>Windmill software did that.
>
>Oh, I get it.  Well, I still
think it should be rewritten over and over again
>until it's not complex and
messy.  It's generally a very simple code (or
>isn't it?)

Of what I
understand, it isn't too bad. Some bits are a little hairy. The
trouble is, how
to rewrite it without changing what it actually does. Do one
thing slightly
differently and all the DRFs won't play (not to mention it not
playing like the
original game any more).

>>Yes, the first thing to do is to get the idea
straight. The main problem
>>is this: In 2D-Digger, you can see the whole
screen at once: where all the
>>emeralds, bags and monsters are. To make
the 3D game feel right, you'd
>>have to have the same properties (you
don't want to turn a corner and find
>>yourself face to face with a
nobbin, or worse, have a hobbin come through
>>the wall right at you, and
you don't want to have to search for that
>>elusive last emerald). But
how can you have a 3D play area and yet be able
>
>Well, it doesn't have
to be first person perspective...  or does it?

No, it definately shouldn't be
first person pespective, or you wouldn't be
able to see what was coming up
behind you.

>>to see all of it? The only idea I had was to have a
semi-transparent
>>material as "background" and the tunnels completely
transparent. You can
>>judge distance to things from (1) their size and
(2) how "fogged out" they
>>are. (2) also helps you to see how many
tunnels there are between you and
>>the object (if the object is crystal
sharp it means there's a void between
>>the viewpoint and it. The fact
that the entire play area rotates on the
>
>I think this is a generally
good idea.  Just to help the users out,
>antialiased lines should be added
to the tunnels, so that the player can know
>where the tunnel begins and
where it ends.

Hey, Tomer agreed with me on something, everybody!
<grin>

I guess I'd have to see it to tell if it would really work or
not. Yes,
antialiased lines are good. The trouble is how thick to make the
"fog". Too
thick and you won't be able to see the things at the back, too thin
and it will
be difficult to tell where the tunnels are. Antialiased lines would
help that.

>>screen as well (or maybe can be rotated, using the mouse or
something)
>>should also help. Julian and I kicked around a few other
ideas, as well as
>>some possible drawing methods, but that one seems to
make the most sense
>>to me.
>
>If you say so, I'm just a humble
servant.

If you have any good ideas, say so. Even humble servants can have
good ideas!
:-)

>>Of course, doing all that will use a lot of processor
time (which is great
>>if the point is to show off powerful PCs), but it
would be nice if there
>>were some different methods (wireframe tunnels
for example) which meant
>>that it was scalable: it would be nice if
Digger 3D worked on 386s
>>upwards.
>
>I seriously doubt that would
work.  386s are weak.  You can't do much on
>a 386, and you may as well
forget appropriate lighting and depth cue -
>they're very CPU and FPU
intensive, and you can't get a 3D accelerator
>on an ISA slot.

Yes, you'd
have to abandon lighting and background fog, but I think wireframe
tunnels and
sprite scaling (using fixed instead of floating point math)
should
work.

>>Great! The background music is 10 times more complicated,
though.
>
>Because it's polyphonic?  Or is that the other way
around?

Because the two timer channels interact in a very complicated way. It
also
seems to modulate a 30KHz wave to get the background music at half the
volume
of the foreground. That'll have to be done quite differently, since not
many
people run their SoundBlasters at 60KHz!

>>> Don't bother
wasting time, it appears to work.  If you get no further bug
>>>
reports just leave it alone. :)
>>
>>Well there's no harm in
checking. I always look for similar bugs when I
>>find a bug, it has
often saved me a lot of time.
>
>Hmm.  Perhaps.  I'll give it another
look-see.

I did: didn't find
anything.


Andrew






Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:40:07 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: digger

Hi
Diethelm,

>1. The bug that digger runs in a very high speed for a short
moment is also
>when only MSDOS is running (without Windows in the
background).

Hmm, interesting. What about if you reboot with a clean boot disk
(nothing in
CONFIG.SYS or AUTOEXEC.BAT)? I've put back the Vsynch option for
people who
have this problem, but I'd much rather fix the hardware timer
problem if
possible, since it gives much finer control over the speed, and
(when I
eventually get around to adding joystick support) the hardware timer
will also
be used for that.

>2. There's another bug (Is it also in the
original digger?):
>When you do not lose any life and you have a score over
60000 there are still
>only 4 lives displayed on the top.

Yes, this was in
the original Digger. However, you can have more lives than
those displayed on
the screen. I've just noticed that there's a bug which means
neither player can
get an extra life if player 2 has 4 lives spare. The
original Digger didn't let
you get more than 4 spare lives at all, so I've
fixed the bug and put back the
original action.

Any DRFs in which the player has more than 4 lives in reserve
will work,
but the last life won't happen (i.e. it will play just as if the bug
was
never there). Fortunately, this doesn't happen on any of the Hall of
Fame
DRFs.

I'm very reluctant to make the rules of Digger Remastered different
to those of
the original Digger, although I see Clive's point: those lives
could come in
very handy later on in the game. But I don't agree that allowing
more than 4
lives would eliminate people comitting suicide on early levels. It
is
definitely easier to get a higher score by doing early levels more than
once,
and I don't think allowing more than 4 spare lives will change this: the
later
levels are much more difficult to score as much on, due to the short
bonus time
and the monsters moving so much faster.

>3. The /A-option does
work not with IRQ10 but with IRQ5. I've tested both
>configurations under
Windows95.
>Both configurations do not work under Windows NT 4.0.

Oops. I
didn't add support for IRQs 8 through 15 (Probably because my out-of
date
SoundBlaster documentation says it can only use IRQs 2, 3, 5 and 7).
They
should all work now (at least, until someone makes a PC with even more
IRQs).

>4. Adding new File
Types:
>
>Explorer-View-Options-FileTypes
>New Type
>Description of
Type: Digger Recorded File
>Assosiated Extension: DRF
>Actions:
open
>Edit: C:\Games\Digger\Remake\Digger.exe "/S:30" "/C" "/Q"
"/E:%0"
>Change Icon:
C:\Games\Digger\Remake\Digger.ico
>
>Explorer-View-Options-FileTypes
>
New Type
>Description of Type: Digger Level File
>Assosiated Extension:
DLF
>Actions: open
>Edit: C:\Games\Digger\Remake\Digger.exe "/C" "/Q"
"/L:%0"
>Change Icon: C:\Games\Digger\Remake\Digger2.ico
>
>Maybe you
can put this on the Digger-Web-Sites.
>
>I've put the Digger2.ico as
attachment to this e-mail.
>
>
>5. For replaying all Digger Recorded
Files I have the following batch:
>
>:ANFANG
>FOR %%I IN (*.DRF) DO
DIGGER /S:20 /Q /C /E:%%I
>GOTO ANFANG

Thanks, I've put all this on the
website. I expanded your batch file a little
so that it exits when you press
F10.

>6. The Diskussion about different speeds in one "Hall Of
Fame":
>
>I think it's ok as it is. I always play with the default of 40.
When I play at
>slower speeds it is too boring. When you have fixed and
tested your strategy
>it is the same if you play it slow or fast. OK - you
are actually better, when
>you play at slower speeds. A few games later
(maybe 100) you get the same
>score with the fast speed. My personal hiscore
is 85625 playing digger at the
>default speed with no pause.
>And I get
better and better ...

Okay. I'm looking forward to the day when you (playing
at speed 40) beat Dror
Bohrer's incredible score (which was as recorded at a
speed as slow as 245 on
the last couple of
levels)!

Andrew




0
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:40:51 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: digger

Hi
Tomer,

> >> It won't work with IRQ10 because it's not supported.  I'm
currently
> >> researching
> >> ways to support it (it works
differently than IRQ3-7). 
> >
> >Don't bother: I've already done
it. I'll upload it a this afternoon.
>
> I won't, then.  How's it done,
really?

Interrupts are 70-77 instead of 8-f, controller ports are a0-a1
instead of
20-21. I hope it's as simple as that: I have no way to test it. See
source
update (sent by email) for more
info.

Andrew





1
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:41:16 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: digger

From
gabelj@gezernet.co.il Wed Jan 13 14:54:10 1999
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:50:16
+0200
From: Tomer Gabel <gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
To: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [digger] Re: digger


-----Original
Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: Tomer Gabel
<gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
Date:  = 13 ڭӰ 1999 16:47
Subject: Re:
[digger] Re: digger


>Interrupts are 70-77 instead of 8-f, controller ports
are a0-a1 instead of
>20-21. I hope it's as simple as that: I have no way to
test it. See source
>update (sent by email) for more info.


I doubt it's as
simple as that (nothing with the Intel architecture ever
is), but I'll have a
look and have someone test it.  I still can't
appropriately compile Digger,
though.












2
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:41:43 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: digger

Hi
Tomer,

>>1. The bug that digger runs in a very high speed for a short
moment is also
>>when only MSDOS is running (without Windows in the
background).
>
>Perhaps it has to do with you video card.  Has anyone
else experienced this
>under MS-DOS?

I don't understand how the video card
could affect the timing (at least, when
not using the /V switch). In fact, I
have no ideas about what it could be at
all. I can reproduce it, it never
happens on any of the computers I've tried
it on. The only thing I can suggest
is that there is a problem with the
hardware timer in your computer. Does your
computer's clock gain time a lot?

>>3. The /A-option does work not with
IRQ10 but with IRQ5. I've tested both
>> configurations under
Windows95.
>> Both configurations do not work under Windows NT
4.0.
>
>Andrew:  Any ideas about the problem with NT?

My best guess is
that NT doesn't allow DOS programs to access the SoundBlaster.
That would be
the broken sort of thing that OS would do...

>>Interrupts are 70-77
instead of 8-f, controller ports are a0-a1 instead of
>>20-21. I hope
it's as simple as that: I have no way to test it. See source
>>update
(sent by email) for more info.
>
>I doubt it's as simple as that (nothing
with the Intel architecture ever
>is), but I'll have a look and have someone
test it.

Diethelm?

>I still can't appropriately compile Digger, though.

I
thought you did. Or are you just talking about the timing
problem?

Andrew




3
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:43:37 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: many e-mails

Hi
Jan

>I subscribed to the mailing list on 5/01/99 and already received 62
(63
>actually, including this one) e-mails... that's a lot!:)

Yes, it has
been incredibly busy over the past few days. It used to be really
quiet (apart
from the odd update message). Hope it's not too much for anyone!
If it is, you
can reduce it to one long email per day by going to onelist and
changing your
subscription to
"Digest".

Andrew




4
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:44:01 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: max. 4 diggers
at the top of the screen

Hi Jan,

> I noticed that one could only gain 4
reserve diggers (located at the top
>of the screen)... why is there a limit?
it should at least be overridable
>with a command-line...

As I said in an
earlier email. This was in the original Digger. As for
why, I think the
original designers realised that if they put all the
reserves at the top but
didn't limit their number, they would start to
overlap, and that would be no
good. If I had designed it I would have made
it show the number of lives in
numbers if it got too large (as I did with
Cool Dude). I could put this on as a
command line option if everybody
wants this, but bear in mind that DRFs created
with that option would not
be eligible for the hall of
fame.

Andrew




5
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:47:46 PST
From:
"Marc West" <westius@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: High Score

Hello all

I noticed
in one of the emails sent out that there was an inquiry into 
the high scores
and the being able to slow the game down. I think that 
official high scores
should be played at the default speed of the game 
as in the original you were
not able to change the speed of the game, 
and basically slowing it down makes
it easier to play.

So I think that perhaps there should be separated high
scores for 
default and changed speeds, but it is true that playing digger
slowly 
makes it quite
boring.

Cheers
Marc










Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999
13:38:14 +0200
From: "Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Fw:
[digger] Re: Linux Digger (mostly off topic)


-----Original Message-----
From:
Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: Tomer Gabel
<gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
Date:   13  1999 18:23
Subject: Re:
[digger] Re: Linux Digger (mostly off topic)


>Hi Tomer,
>
>Oh, you
moved it off the list (fair enough...)
>
>>>> The music routines
aren't complete.
>>>
>>>True, but the things I need to change
to make that work will be entirely
>>>in C and won't change from
platform to platform, so there's no reason not
>>>to write an OSS
wrapper now.
>>
>>True, but other stuff needs to be rewritten -
timing, graphics and
likewise.
>>The Acorn version may have been simple
enough to do, but the Acorn
>>natively works on standard VGA,
no?
>
>No, the video memory is layed out completely differently, hence
the Acorn
stuff
>in MKG.C. The only similarity between Acorn and VGA is that
you can set a
>640x400x16 mode.
>
>>>> >Surely there must
be a way to use the same graphics modes DOS Digger
uses
>>>>
>under Linux on a PC?
>>>>
>>>> I seriously doubt
that's a good idea.  The entire idea behind Linux is
>>>>
portability, and for that reason Linux allows for, but does not
support,

>>>> direct hardware access.  Since Linux will (generally) only
run under
386s,
>>>> speed shouldn't be that much of an
issue.
>>>
>>>Why not allow for both direct hardware access*
as well as the other way
of
>>>doing it.
>>
>>I suppose
that's a possibility, but very very messy.
>
>Well, my ideal solution
would be to have one I/O module per platform, but
if
>there are things that
have been standardized between platforms, fair
enough,
>as long as it does
run at a decent speed and it looks the same (restricting
it
>to CGA-style
graphics is not an option.)
>
>>>* To improve processor usage. Even
if the game is fast enough you want it
>>>to slow down your slopsucker
as little as possible.
>>
>>Why don't we just convert the whole
thing to native, Pentium-II optimized
>>assembler, then?
>
>Because
that would prevent anyone using Linux on anything less than a P2
fr
om
>running it, annoying some of those people and reducing the
possible
audience,
>all for a very small speed
increase.
>
>>>> Why would you do such a thing?  You lost the
original source code,
>>>> or what?
>>>
>>>I
decompiled it from the binary I had. I didn't compile it the
first
time:
>>>Windmill software did that.
>>
>>Oh, I get
it.  Well, I still think it should be rewritten over and
over
again
>>until it's not complex and messy.  It's generally a very
simple code (or
>>isn't it?)
>
>Of what I understand, it isn't too
bad. Some bits are a little hairy. The
>trouble is, how to rewrite it
without changing what it actually does. Do
one
>thing slightly differently
and all the DRFs won't play (not to mention it
not
>playing like the
original game any more).
>
>>>Yes, the first thing to do is to get
the idea straight. The main problem
>>>is this: In 2D-Digger, you can
see the whole screen at once: where all
the
>>>emeralds, bags and
monsters are. To make the 3D game feel right, you'd
>>>have to have
the same properties (you don't want to turn a corner
and
find
>>>yourself face to face with a nobbin, or worse, have a
hobbin come through
>>>the wall right at you, and you don't want to
have to search for that
>>>elusive last emerald). But how can you have
a 3D play area and yet be
able
>>
>>Well, it doesn't have to be
first person perspective...  or does it?
>
>No, it definately shouldn't
be first person pespective, or you wouldn't be
>able to see what was coming
up behind you.
>
>>>to see all of it? The only idea I had was to
have a semi-transparent
>>>material as "background" and the tunnels
completely transparent. You can
>>>judge distance to things from (1)
their size and (2) how "fogged out"
they
>>>are. (2) also helps you to
see how many tunnels there are between you and
>>>the object (if the
object is crystal sharp it means there's a void
between
>>>the
viewpoint and it. The fact that the entire play area rotates on
the
>>
>>I think this is a generally good idea.  Just to help the
users out,
>>antialiased lines should be added to the tunnels, so that
the player can
know
>>where the tunnel begins and where it
ends.
>
>Hey, Tomer agreed with me on something, everybody!
<grin>
>
>I guess I'd have to see it to tell if it would really
work or not. Yes,
>antialiased lines are good. The trouble is how thick to
make the "fog". Too
>thick and you won't be able to see the things at the
back, too thin and it
will
>be difficult to tell where the tunnels are.
Antialiased lines would help
that.
>
>>>screen as well (or maybe
can be rotated, using the mouse or something)
>>>should also help.
Julian and I kicked around a few other ideas, as well
as
>>>some
possible drawing methods, but that one seems to make the most
sense
>>>to me.
>>
>>If you say so, I'm just a humble
servant.
>
>If you have any good ideas, say so. Even humble servants can
have good
ideas!
>:-)
>
>>>Of course, doing all that will use a
lot of processor time (which is
great
>>>if the point is to show off
powerful PCs), but it would be nice if there
>>>were some different
methods (wireframe tunnels for example) which meant
>>>that it was
scalable: it would be nice if Digger 3D worked on
386s
>>>upwards.
>>
>>I seriously doubt that would work.
386s are weak.  You can't do much on
>>a 386, and you may as well forget
appropriate lighting and depth cue -
>>they're very CPU and FPU
intensive, and you can't get a 3D accelerator
>>on an ISA
slot.
>
>Yes, you'd have to abandon lighting and background fog, but I
think
wireframe
>tunnels and sprite scaling (using fixed instead of floating
point math)
should
>work.
>
>>>Great! The background music is 10
times more complicated, though.
>>
>>Because it's polyphonic?  Or
is that the other way around?
>
>Because the two timer channels interact
in a very complicated way. It also
>seems to modulate a 30KHz wave to get
the background music at half the
volume
>of the foreground. That'll have to
be done quite differently, since not
many
>people run their SoundBlasters at
60KHz!
>
>>>> Don't bother wasting time, it appears to work.  If
you get no further
bug
>>>> reports just leave it alone.
:)
>>>
>>>Well there's no harm in checking. I always look for
similar bugs when I
>>>find a bug, it has often saved me a lot of
time.
>>
>>Hmm.  Perhaps.  I'll give it another
look-see.
>
>I did: didn't find anything.
>
>
>>>Acorn
assembler is completely different: just look at the
ARMASM.ASM
>>>source file to see how different. Most of the C code
compiled straight
off
>>>(there were just a few library functions
which I thought were Ansi but
>>>weren't, and were easy to
change).
>>
>>Does the Acorn utilise a M68000 or similar processor?
It looks very
>>similar to some Amiga code I've seen.
>
>No, it's
an ARM (Advanced RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computing)
Machine).
>The
instruction set was designed so that compilers could make very
fast
code.
>
>>>> Me too :)   Part #1
attached.
>>>
>>>No, it wasn't.
>>
>>Yes, I was
distracted while I was replying to the mail, so I forgot
>>all about it.
It is now, though.  It's an old disc, so make sure you
>>check for
viruses.
>
>Thanks. Waiting for Part #2.
>
>>>> It'll take
you 15 years just to decompress the sourcecode (even if it's
>>>>
gzipped :))
>>>
>>>Good point, although presumably it's
pretty modular, so you would just
>>>unzip the source code archive
which contained the file/open box and fix
>>>that: you wouldn't need
it all at once.
>>
>>Don't presume anything when it comes to
Microsoft.
>
>Well, if they were nice enough to release source code, they
might be nice
in
>other ways too.
>
>>>> Six AMJs?  What do
the others stand for?  (BTW, is Jenner an originally
>>>> French
name?)
>>>
>>>Cambridge is a big place: there are something
like 10,000 undergrads here
>>>during term, and half as many grads
(although many of them use
other
email
>>>servies).
>>
>>Ohh, lots of
people.
>>
>>>A quick "finger" reveals:
>>>amj21 = A.M.
Jadav, clinical medicine
>>
>>Jadav?  Hmm, I wonder where this name
orginiates from.
>
><shrug> So ask him/her. I'm sure there are many
people with strange names
in
>Cambridge: it's such an educational focal
point there are people here from
>every corner of the
world.
>
>>>amj23 = A.M. Jabir, computer science research
(cancelled)
>>
>>Another weird name.  What does "cancelled" mean?
Did he
>>get the boot?
>
>Not necessarily, he might just have left.
A Cambridge email address isn't
for
>life.
>
>>>> Well, since
I haven't BCC.EXE I had to compile it under the IDE.
Perhaps
>>>>
the debugging information (if existant) fucks it up.  I didn't
change
jack
>>>> besides that, as I nearly copied the switches to
BC IDE.
>>>
>>>Shouldn't do. What BC are you using? The 4.52
IDE uses the same debug
info
>>>as BCC, just some tables tacked onto
the end of the executable: it's been
>>>like that since at latest
TC2.01.
>>
>>BC 3.1...
>
>Send me the executable with debug
info and .OBJ files, maybe I can figure
it
>out.
>
>>>Right, now
I'm back from the cinema, here they are.
>>>
>>>Compiler
options:
>>>-v  Enable source level
debugging
>>
>>Yuck.
>
>Why yuck?
>
>>>-f- Turn
off floating point support
>>
>>In BC it's -f, -f- means
emulate.
>
>They've changed and rearranged a lot of the options.
(Strange, though: on
>TC2.01, -f was emulate and -f- off as
well).
>
>>>-Z  Optimisation (probably, not really sure what it
does)
>>
>>So leave it out :)
>
>I think it's more likely to
do good than harm.
>
>>>-w-sus Turn off "Suspicious Pointer
Conversion warning" for some files
>>
>>BC never gives me that
warning.  Besides, you can simply ignore it.
>
>It should, if all
warnings are turned on, for the files CGAGRAFX.C,
VGAGRAFX.C
>and ALPHA.C
(where near pointers are created to things compiled in the huge
>memory
model).
>
>>>-RT- Turn off Run Time Type Interface generation
(probably unnecessary,
>>>since there isn't any C++ code in
it)
>>
>>My version of BC hasn't any such switch.
>
>Is it
also a C++ compiler? Does it have RTTI?
>
>>>Assembler options (for
completeness' sake):
>>>+o  Assemble to .OBJ file (as opposed to
.COM)
>>>+c  Case sensitive
>>
>>I hate A86.
>
>It's
a neat little assembler for 8088-80286 machines: very fast
and
>configurable. Pity it's incompatible with everything else! Also a pity
that
the
>386/486/Pentium/P2 version is not shareware as well. It comes with
a
debugger
>which is similarly small, fast and neat, but not quite in the
same league
as
>A86 itself.
>
>>>You might think it strange that
I use compiler options when I have no
idea
>>>what they do. I haven't
checked, but I think -k- and -Z do make it
smaller
>>>and faster. They
don't seem to do any harm, anyway.
>>
>>Perhaps, I left them out
just to make sure.
>
>-k- turns off the standard stack frame (and,
presumably, uses a better
>non-standard one. Strangely, -k- is default in
TC2.01, so I left it like
that.
>
>>>What library did you use, by
the way?
>>
>>The standard BC 3.1 lib.
>
>And that was small
enough? Good. I guess that's quite a bit
older.
>
>Andrew
>
>





Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999
15:17:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re:
digger



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999
13:36:09 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
To: Andrew
Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [digger] Re: digger


-----Original
Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: Tomer Gabel
<gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
Date:  = 13 ڭӰ 1999 18:23
Subject: Re:
[digger] Re: digger


>I don't understand how the video card could affect
the timing (at least, 
>when not using the /V switch). In fact, I have no
ideas about what it
>could be at all. I can reproduce it, it never happens
on any of the
>computers I've tried it on. The only thing I can suggest is
that there
>is a problem with the hardware timer in your computer. Does
your
>computer's clock gain time a lot?

The blits can take different
timeslices.  Some cards have very ****ed
RAMDACs.

>My best guess is that NT
doesn't allow DOS programs to access the
>SoundBlaster. That would be the
broken sort of thing that OS would do...

Maybe it can be fixed in the
properties tab.  I haven't Windows NT 4.0
(although I'm trying to get it from
somewhere), so I can't really check it
out.

>>I still can't
appropriately compile Digger, though.
>
>I thought you did. Or are you
just talking about the timing problem?

Yes, I am talking about the timing
problem.





Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:26:16 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: digger

Hi Tomer,

>
>I don't understand how the video card could affect the timing (at least,

> >when not using the /V switch). In fact, I have no ideas about what
it
> >could be at all. I can reproduce it, it never happens on any of
the
> >computers I've tried it on. The only thing I can suggest is that
there
> >is a problem with the hardware timer in your computer. Does
your
> >computer's clock gain time a lot?
>
> The blits can take
different timeslices.  Some cards have very ****ed
> RAMDACs.

Hey, no
swearing. This is a family list! (Although since you thought you
were emailing
me, I suppose it can be forgiven.) No matter how long memory
access to the
video card takes, it shouldn't cause the game to speed up
because Digger
measures all the game time by the hardware timer. As long
as the timer is
accurate and the computer can keep up with how fast you've
asked the game to
go, there shouldn't be any timing problems.

> >My best guess is that NT
doesn't allow DOS programs to access the
> >SoundBlaster. That would be
the broken sort of thing that OS would do...
>
> Maybe it can be fixed
in the properties tab.  I haven't Windows NT 4.0
> (although I'm trying to
get it from somewhere), so I can't really check it
> out.

Does anyone with
Windows NT 4.0 know if it supports DOS programs accessing
the SoundBlaster? Or
does the OS deny all knowledge of it to the program,
as it does with
SVGA?

Andrew





Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:38:26 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)

From gabelj@gezernet.co.il Thu Jan 14 15:33:40 1999
Date: Thu, 14 Jan
1999 13:33:10 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
To: Andrew
Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [digger] Re: Linux Digger (mostly
off topic)


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: Tomer Gabel <gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
Date: 
= 13 ڭӰ 1999 18:23
Subject: Re: [digger] Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)


>Hi Tomer,

>>True, but other stuff needs to be rewritten -
timing, graphics and  
>>likewise. The Acorn version may have been simple
enough to do, but the
>>Acorn natively works on standard VGA,
no?
>
>No, the video memory is layed out completely differently, hence
the Acorn
>stuff in MKG.C. The only similarity between Acorn and VGA is that
you can
>set a 640x400x16 mode.

Oh.  Well, I'll give it a shot, if I manage
to get a grip on Linux.

>>>Why not allow for both direct hardware
access* as well as the other way
>>>of doing it.
>>
>>I
suppose that's a possibility, but very very messy.
>
>Well, my ideal
solution would be to have one I/O module per platform, but
>if there are
things that have been standardized between platforms, fair
>enough, as long
as it does run at a decent speed and it looks the same
>(restricting it to
CGA-style graphics is not an option.)

Since Linux won't run on XTs anyway
(there's an attempt to change this, but
the project is currently at a dead-end
of sorts) there's not much problem
with speed.

>>Why don't we just
convert the whole thing to native, Pentium-II optimized
>>assembler,
then?
>
>Because that would prevent anyone using Linux on anything less
than a P2 
>from running it, annoying some of those people and reducing the
possible
>audience, all for a very small speed increase.

It was a cynical
remark, as I'm sure you observed.  But still, I think speed
should be a less
critical factor, as I doubt people actually run Digger
revised on XTs.  And
those who do have internet access, and thus better
computers to run Digger
on.

>>Oh, I get it.  Well, I still think it should be rewritten over and
over
>>again until it's not complex and messy.  It's generally a very
simple
>>code (or isn't it?)
>
>Of what I understand, it isn't too
bad. Some bits are a little hairy. The
>trouble is, how to rewrite it
without changing what it actually does. Do 
>one thing slightly differently
and all the DRFs won't play (not to
>mention it not playing like the
original game any more).

No, when I say rewrite, I say - lay guidelines and do
everything practically
the same, only differently.  The code should generally
have the same
result, but written better.

>>Well, it doesn't have to be
first person perspective...  or does it?
>
>No, it definately shouldn't
be first person pespective, or you wouldn't be
>able to see what was coming
up behind you.

As I was saying, I'm not much of a designer.  I'm a capable
programmer,
but nothing more.

>>I think this is a generally good idea.
Just to help the users out,
>>antialiased lines should be added to the
tunnels, so that the player can 
>>know where the tunnel begins and where
it ends.
>
>Hey, Tomer agreed with me on something, everybody!
<grin>

It's off the list, thus off the record :)

>I guess I'd have
to see it to tell if it would really work or not. Yes,
>antialiased lines
are good. The trouble is how thick to make the "fog". Too
>thick and you
won't be able to see the things at the back, too thin and it
>will be
difficult to tell where the tunnels are. Antialiased lines would
>help
that.

Well, if we design it to support APIs that's not much of a problem.
With
the introduction of 3DFX's Glide they have also introduced
something
called a Fog Table which can be either emulated or directly used by
both
Direct3D and OpenGL.  If we write a software engine it could be
messier.

>>If you say so, I'm just a humble servant.
>
>If you
have any good ideas, say so. Even humble servants can have good 
>ideas!
:-)

Unless, of course, they're as pathologically unoriginal as yours
truly.

>>I seriously doubt that would work.  386s are weak.  You can't
do much on
>>a 386, and you may as well forget appropriate lighting and
depth cue -
>>they're very CPU and FPU intensive, and you can't get a 3D
accelerator
>>on an ISA slot.
>
>Yes, you'd have to abandon
lighting and background fog, but I think 
>wireframe tunnels and sprite
scaling (using fixed instead of floating
>point math)
should
>work...

... and suck.

>>Because it's polyphonic?  Or is that
the other way around?
>
>Because the two timer channels interact in a
very complicated way. It also
>seems to modulate a 30KHz wave to get the
background music at half the
>volume of the foreground. That'll have to be
done quite differently,
>since not many people run their SoundBlasters at
60KHz!

Since the Sound Blaster routines are AM, this shouldn't be a problem -
fetch
the music bytes as normal, ignore every other byte and halve the value.
We
can also have FM music, and a mixer to control the whole volume thing.
Of
course, I probably misunderstood your whole point.

>>Hmm.  Perhaps.
I'll give it another look-see.
>
>I did: didn't find anything.

I will in
a couple of minutes (I have the entire day free,
finally).





Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:56:58 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)

Hi Tomer,

> >>True, but other stuff needs to be rewritten -
timing, graphics and  
> >>likewise. The Acorn version may have been
simple enough to do, but the
> >>Acorn natively works on standard VGA,
no?
> >
> >No, the video memory is layed out completely
differently, hence the Acorn
> >stuff in MKG.C. The only similarity
between Acorn and VGA is that you can
> >set a 640x400x16 mode.
>

> Oh.  Well, I'll give it a shot, if I manage to get a grip on
Linux.

Great.

> >>>Why not allow for both direct hardware access*
as well as the other way
> >>>of doing it.
> >>
>
>>I suppose that's a possibility, but very very messy.
> >
>
>Well, my ideal solution would be to have one I/O module per platform,
but
> >if there are things that have been standardized between platforms,
fair
> >enough, as long as it does run at a decent speed and it looks the
same
> >(restricting it to CGA-style graphics is not an option.)
>

> Since Linux won't run on XTs anyway (there's an attempt to change this,
but
> the project is currently at a dead-end of sorts) there's not much
problem
> with speed.

It just bugs me to write a program that's a lot
slower simply because it's
a little easier. It only took a day or so to rewrite
the interface
routines for the Acorn so it should take even less to rewrite
them for
Linux.

> >>Why don't we just convert the whole thing to
native, Pentium-II optimized
> >>assembler, then?
> >
>
>Because that would prevent anyone using Linux on anything less than a P2

> >from running it, annoying some of those people and reducing the
possible
> >audience, all for a very small speed increase.
>
> It
was a cynical remark, as I'm sure you observed.  But still, I think speed
>
should be a less critical factor, as I doubt people actually run Digger
>
revised on XTs.  And those who do have internet access, and thus better
>
computers to run Digger on.

Well ideally (and in the Linux case) everyone
would compile it for
themselves, thus having a version optimised for their own
processor. When
this is impossible, you have to use the lowest common
denominator, even if
it rarely occurs in practice, because it might
occur.

> >>Oh, I get it.  Well, I still think it should be rewritten
over and over
> >>again until it's not complex and messy.  It's
generally a very simple
> >>code (or isn't it?)
> >
> >Of
what I understand, it isn't too bad. Some bits are a little hairy. The
>
>trouble is, how to rewrite it without changing what it actually does. Do

> >one thing slightly differently and all the DRFs won't play (not
to
> >mention it not playing like the original game any more).
>
>
No, when I say rewrite, I say - lay guidelines and do everything
practically
> the same, only differently.  The code should generally have
the same
> result, but written better.

Of course, but that's very difficult
to do. I spent ages ironing out all
the bugs after I rewrote it in C.

>
>>I think this is a generally good idea.  Just to help the users out,

> >>antialiased lines should be added to the tunnels, so that the
player can 
> >>know where the tunnel begins and where it ends.
>
>
> >Hey, Tomer agreed with me on something, everybody!
<grin>
>
> It's off the list, thus off the record :)

That's what
you think! Hopefully with this iteration all the threads
should be back where
they should be.

> >>I seriously doubt that would work.  386s are
weak.  You can't do much on
> >>a 386, and you may as well forget
appropriate lighting and depth cue -
> >>they're very CPU and FPU
intensive, and you can't get a 3D accelerator
> >>on an ISA slot.
>
>
> >Yes, you'd have to abandon lighting and background fog, but I
think 
> >wireframe tunnels and sprite scaling (using fixed instead of
floating
> >point math) should
> >work...
>
> ... and
suck.

But it would be good for a 386, and would play the same as
the
(graphically much more impressive) version on a P2.

> >>Because
it's polyphonic?  Or is that the other way around?
> >
> >Because
the two timer channels interact in a very complicated way. It also
>
>seems to modulate a 30KHz wave to get the background music at half the
>
>volume of the foreground. That'll have to be done quite differently,
>
>since not many people run their SoundBlasters at 60KHz!
>
> Since
the Sound Blaster routines are AM, this shouldn't be a problem - fetch
> the
music bytes as normal, ignore every other byte and halve the value.  We
>
can also have FM music, and a mixer to control the whole volume thing. Of
>
course, I probably misunderstood your whole point.

The trouble is switching
between the sound and the music so it sounds the
same as the original (if you
just mix them, it sounds wrong). FM music
would sound even more different and
would vary between sound cards (and be
much more difficult to port between
platforms).

Andrew





Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:02:53 +0100

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: 3D

Hi All!

That
with the 3D-Digger was a joke!
If I had known that I would react an explosion
of hundreds of mails I never
had been so stupid to write such a
mail!

Diethelm




Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:13:36 +0100

From: "Jan Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: 3D

why is
that? are you against progress for some dark reason?
that's why Hitler was
german... maybe...


-----Original Message-----
From: Diethelm Kabus
<dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: digger@onelist.com
<digger@onelist.com>
Date: donderdag 14 januari 1999 17:04
Subject:
[digger] 3D


>From: Diethelm Kabus
<dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
>
>Hi All!
>
>That with the
3D-Digger was a joke!
>If I had known that I would react an explosion of
hundreds of mails I never
>had been so stupid to write such a
mail!
>
>Diethelm
>
>----------------------------------------------
--------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to
change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at
http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on
the
left.
>





Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:46:20 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: digger


-----Original
Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com
<digger@onelist.com>
Date:   14  1999 17:27
Subject:
[digger] Re: digger


>From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>> The blits can take different timeslices.
Some cards have very ****ed
>> RAMDACs.
>
>Hey, no swearing. This
is a family list! (Although since you thought you
>were emailing me, I
suppose it can be forgiven.) No matter how long memory
>access to the video
card takes, it shouldn't cause the game to speed up
>because Digger measures
all the game time by the hardware timer. As long
>as the timer is accurate
and the computer can keep up with how fast you've
>asked the game to go,
there shouldn't be any timing problems.


That's not swearing, it's mearly an
accurate account of some cards'
disfunctioning RAMDACs.  Perhaps the timing
code isn't all that
accurate, then.

>Does anyone with Windows NT 4.0 know
if it supports DOS programs accessing
>the SoundBlaster? Or does the OS deny
all knowledge of it to the program,
>as it does with SVGA?


Ha, NT won't
allow VESA
either.






Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:55:44 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:
  14  1999 17:59
Subject: [digger] Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)


>> Oh.  Well, I'll give it a shot, if I manage to get a grip on
Linux.
>
>Great.


Don't get overexcited, I'm not much of a Linux
guru.

>> Since Linux won't run on XTs anyway (there's an attempt to
change this,
but
>> the project is currently at a dead-end of sorts)
there's not much problem
>> with speed.
>
>It just bugs me to write
a program that's a lot slower simply because it's
>a little easier. It only
took a day or so to rewrite the interface
>routines for the Acorn so it
should take even less to rewrite them for
>Linux.


It'll take a whole lot
more, I'll have to research Linux first if I decide
to
undertake this as it'll
be my first Linux programming project.

>Well ideally (and in the Linux
case) everyone would compile it for
>themselves, thus having a version
optimised for their own processor. When
>this is impossible, you have to use
the lowest common denominator, even if
>it rarely occurs in practice,
because it might occur.


I too think that as many people as possible should
play Digger, but who
the hell plays it on XTs?  I see your point, but still.  I
think aiming for
286
or 386 compatibility/performance would be a better
idea.

>> No, when I say rewrite, I say - lay guidelines and do
everything
practically
>> the same, only differently.  The code should
generally have the same
>> result, but written better.
>
>Of
course, but that's very difficult to do. I spent ages ironing out all
>the
bugs after I rewrote it in C.


And then you'll spend ages ironing out all the
bugs after you rewrite
in C++.  Only this time, you'll have much less because
you don't have
to literally convert the assembler code to C.

>> >Hey,
Tomer agreed with me on something, everybody! <grin>
>>
>>
It's off the list, thus off the record :)
>
>That's what you think!
Hopefully with this iteration all the threads
>should be back where they
should be.


I warn you, if this gets out to the public - - well, I know where
you live,
and I have ties in the Romanian Mafia!

>> >Yes, you'd have
to abandon lighting and background fog, but I think
>> >wireframe
tunnels and sprite scaling (using fixed instead of floating
>> >point
math) should
>> >work...
>>
>> ... and suck.
>
>But
it would be good for a 386, and would play the same as the
>(graphically
much more impressive) version on a P2.


Hmmph.

>> Since the Sound
Blaster routines are AM, this shouldn't be a problem -
fetch
>> the music
bytes as normal, ignore every other byte and halve the value.
We
>> can
also have FM music, and a mixer to control the whole volume thing. Of
>>
course, I probably misunderstood your whole point.
>
>The trouble is
switching between the sound and the music so it sounds the
>same as the
original (if you just mix them, it sounds wrong). FM music
>would sound even
more different and would vary between sound cards (and be
>much more
difficult to port between platforms).


Did you try mixing them?  Or does it
only sound wrong in
theory?





0
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:56:11 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: 3D


-----Original
Message-----
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To:
digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   14  1999
18:05
Subject: [digger] 3D


>From: Diethelm Kabus
<dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
>
>Hi All!
>
>That with the
3D-Digger was a joke!
>If I had known that I would react an explosion of
hundreds of mails I never
>had been so stupid to write such a mail!


It's
not as joke as you'd
think.





1
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:56:45 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: 3D


-----Original
Message-----
From: Jan Van Nieuwenhove <Jan_VN@turboline.be>
To:
digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   14  1999
18:10
Subject: [digger] Re: 3D


>From: "Jan Van Nieuwenhove"
<Jan_VN@turboline.be>
>
>why is that? are you against progress for
some dark reason?
>that's why Hitler was german... maybe...


Ha?  I find
this remark in poor
taste.





2
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:12:49 +0100
From:
"Jan Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re:
digger


-----Original Message-----
From: Tomer Gabel
<gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
<digger@onelist.com>
Date: donderdag 14 januari 1999 18:00
Subject:
[digger] Re: digger


>From: "Tomer Gabel"
<gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
>
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>To:
digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
>Date:   14  1999
17:27
>Subject: [digger] Re: digger


--/--

>>Does anyone with
Windows NT 4.0 know if it supports DOS programs accessing
>>the
SoundBlaster? Or does the OS deny all knowledge of it to the program,

>>as it does with SVGA?
>
>
>Ha, NT won't allow VESA
either.

wait until windows2000 aka NT5
:)
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
---------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your
subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at
http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on
the
left.
>




3
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:30:41 +0100
From:
"Jan Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: 3D


-----Original
Message-----
From: Tomer Gabel <gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
To:
digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date: donderdag 14 januari 1999
18:23
Subject: [digger] Re: 3D


>From: "Tomer Gabel"
<gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
>
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From: Jan Van Nieuwenhove <Jan_VN@turboline.be>
>To:
digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
>Date:   14  1999
18:10
>Subject: [digger] Re: 3D
>
>
>>From: "Jan Van
Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@turboline.be>
>>
>>why is that? are you
against progress for some dark reason?
>>that's why Hitler was german...
maybe...
>
>
>Ha?  I find this remark in poor taste.

chill Tomer....
If I offended someone... I doth
apologize

>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change
your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at
http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on
the
left.
>




4
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:35:41 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: digger

>wait until
windows2000 aka NT5 :)


I'll pass.

Use
Linux!





5
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:09:58 PST
From: "Or
Moses" <ormoses@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Digger musics

Hi there everyone,

I
wonder if anyone can give me the notes (and the delays of them and 
between
them) of the musics from digger, I mean:
1) Popcorn
2) The death thing
3) The
William Tell bonus music
4) The level making music

I suppose that especially
Andrew (that has the code) can give them to 
me...:)

Thank you very much,
Or
Moses






6
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:15:59 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: 3D

>>>why is
that? are you against progress for some dark reason?
>>>that's why
Hitler was german... maybe...
>>
>>
>>Ha?  I find this remark
in poor taste.
>
>chill Tomer.... If I offended someone... I doth
apologize


It's not really about offense, it's about Hitler having
absolutely
nothing with it.  Heck, this is off-topic, let's cut it
out.





7
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:16:34 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger
musics


-----Original Message-----
From: Or Moses
<ormoses@hotmail.com>
To: digger@onelist.com
<digger@onelist.com>
Date:   14  1999 20:10
Subject:
[digger] Digger musics


>From: "Or Moses"
<ormoses@hotmail.com>
>
>Hi there everyone,
>
>I wonder if
anyone can give me the notes (and the delays of them and
>between them) of
the musics from digger, I mean:
>1) Popcorn
>2) The death thing
>3)
The William Tell bonus music
>4) The level making music
>
>I suppose
that especially Andrew (that has the code) can give them to
>me...:)


Gimme
a couple of days, I'll write them
down.





8
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:17:34 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: digger

Hi Tomer,

>
>> The blits can take different timeslices.  Some cards have very
****ed
> >> RAMDACs.
> >
> >Hey, no swearing. This is a
family list! (Although since you thought you
> >were emailing me, I
suppose it can be forgiven.) No matter how long memory
> >access to the
video card takes, it shouldn't cause the game to speed up
> >because
Digger measures all the game time by the hardware timer. As long
> >as
the timer is accurate and the computer can keep up with how fast you've
>
>asked the game to go, there shouldn't be any timing problems.
>
>
That's not swearing, it's mearly an accurate account of some cards'
>
disfunctioning RAMDACs.  Perhaps the timing code isn't all that
> accurate,
then.

Well, given that it seems to work fine on most computers (and I spent
a
lot of time tuning it, and making sure it should always work properly)
I
think it's more likely to be a hardware problem or a conflict with
some
bizarre TSR which reprograms the timer at random. Either way, it's
very
strange.

>>It just bugs me to write a program that's a lot slower
simply because
>>it's a little easier. It only took a day or so to
rewrite the interface
>>routines for the Acorn so it should take even
less to rewrite them for
>>Linux.
>
>It'll take a whole lot more,
I'll have to research Linux first if I
>decide to undertake this as it'll be
my first Linux programming project.

Ah, of course. Still, think of the
kudos!

>>Well ideally (and in the Linux case) everyone would compile it
for
>>themselves, thus having a version optimised for their own
processor.
>>When this is impossible, you have to use the lowest common
denominator,
>>even if it rarely occurs in practice, because it might
occur.
>
>I too think that as many people as possible should play Digger,
but who
>the hell plays it on XTs?  I see your point, but still.  I think
aiming
>for 286 or 386 compatibility/performance would be a better
idea.

But there wouldn't be much advantage. What you'd gain is an
executable
which ran slightly faster on computers it ran perfectly fast on to
start
with. What you'd lose is the ability to run it on an XT if you wanted
to.
We have an XT in our house, and should my brother start playing
Digger
again I'm sure he'd prefer to use Remastered. So there's one. I'm
sure
there are lots of redundant XTs lying around which could be put to
good
use as Digger machines (although having said that, Digger Remastered
has
*made* a lot of XTs redundant!)

>>> No, when I say rewrite, I say
- lay guidelines and do everything
>>> practically the same, only
differently.  The code should generally
>>> have the same result, but
written better.
>>
>>Of course, but that's very difficult to do. I
spent ages ironing out all
>>the bugs after I rewrote it in
C.
>
>And then you'll spend ages ironing out all the bugs after you
rewrite
>in C++.  Only this time, you'll have much less because you don't
have
>to literally convert the assembler code to C.

Well, since I've never
programmed anything in C++ before I'd have loads of
bugs :-).

>>>
>Hey, Tomer agreed with me on something, everybody!
<grin>
>>>
>>> It's off the list, thus off the record
:)
>>
>>That's what you think! Hopefully with this iteration all
the threads
>>should be back where they should be.
>
>I warn you,
if this gets out to the public - - well, I know where you
>live, and I have
ties in the Romanian Mafia!

Uh, oh. My mistake. Tomer didn't agree with me,
everybody!

>>> Since the Sound Blaster routines are AM, this
shouldn't be a problem -
>>> fetch the music bytes as normal, ignore
every other byte and halve the
>>> value. We can also have FM music,
and a mixer to control the whole
>>> volume thing. Of course, I
probably misunderstood your whole point.
>>
>>The trouble is
switching between the sound and the music so it sounds
>>the same as the
original (if you just mix them, it sounds wrong). FM
>>music would sound
even more different and would vary between sound
>>cards (and be much
more difficult to port between platforms).
>
>Did you try mixing them?
Or does it only sound wrong in theory?

Well, it doesn't sound too bad in
theory, the main problem being that the
sound effects are reduced in volume by
1/3. But I've noticed that changing
the tiniest thing in the sound routines
makes sound effects that are
noticably and even annoyingly different from the
original Digger sound.
Mainly the thing is that I want it to be as close to the
original
as
possible.

Andrew




9
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:55:22 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger
musics

> >I wonder if anyone can give me the notes (and the delays of
them and
> >between them) of the musics from digger, I mean:
> >1)
Popcorn
> >2) The death thing
> >3) The William Tell bonus
music
> >4) The level making music
> >
> >I suppose that
especially Andrew (that has the code) can give them to
> >me...:)
>

> Gimme a couple of days, I'll write them down.

But you'd have to read my
C code to understand them! I have them here.

Sint4 bonusjingle[321]={

0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,

0xd59,4, 0xbe4,4, 0xa98,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,

0x11d1,4, 0xd59,2, 0xa98,2, 0xbe4,4, 0xe24,4,0x11d1,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,

0x11d1,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2, 0xd59,4, 0xbe4,4,

0xa98,4, 0xd59,2, 0xa98,2, 0x8e8,10,0xa00,2, 0xa98,2, 0xbe4,2, 0xd59,4,

0xa98,4, 0xd59,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4,

0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2, 0xd59,4, 0xbe4,4, 0xa98,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4,

0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4, 0xd59,2, 0xa98,2, 0xbe4,4, 0xe24,4,0x11d1,4,

0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,4,0x11d1,2,0x11d1,2,

0xd59,4, 0xbe4,4, 0xa98,4, 0xd59,2, 0xa98,2, 0x8e8,10,0xa00,2, 0xa98,2,

0xbe4,2, 0xd59,4, 0xa98,4, 0xd59,4, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4, 0xa98,2,

0xa98,2, 0xa98,4, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4, 0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4,

0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4, 0xa98,4, 0xbe4,4, 0xd59,4, 0xe24,4, 0xfdf,4, 0xa98,2,

0xa98,2, 0xa98,4, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4,

0x7f0,4, 0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4, 0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4, 0x8e8,4, 0x970,4, 0x8e8,4,

0x970,4, 0x8e8,4, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4,

0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4, 0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4, 0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4,

0xa98,4, 0xbe4,4, 0xd59,4, 0xe24,4, 0xfdf,4, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4,

0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,2, 0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4, 0xa98,4,

0x7f0,4, 0xa98,4, 0x7f0,4, 0x8e8,4, 0x970,4, 0x8e8,4, 0x970,4, 0x8e8,4,

0x7d64};

Sint4 backgjingle[291]={
   0xfdf,2,0x11d1,2, 0xfdf,2,0x1530,2,
0x1ab2,2,0x1530,2,0x1fbf,4, 0xfdf,2,
  0x11d1,2, 0xfdf,2,0x1530,2,0x1ab2,2,
0x1530,2,0x1fbf,4, 0xfdf,2, 0xe24,2,
   0xd59,2, 0xe24,2, 0xd59,2, 0xfdf,2,
0xe24,2, 0xfdf,2, 0xe24,2,0x11d1,2,
   0xfdf,2,0x11d1,2, 0xfdf,2,0x1400,2,
0xfdf,4, 0xfdf,2,0x11d1,2, 0xfdf,2,
  0x1530,2,0x1ab2,2,0x1530,2,0x1fbf,4,
0xfdf,2,0x11d1,2, 0xfdf,2,0x1530,2,
  0x1ab2,2,0x1530,2,0x1fbf,4, 0xfdf,2,
0xe24,2, 0xd59,2, 0xe24,2, 0xd59,2,
   0xfdf,2, 0xe24,2, 0xfdf,2, 0xe24,2,
0x11d1,2, 0xfdf,2,0x11d1,2, 0xfdf,2,
   0xe24,2, 0xd59,4, 0xa98,2, 0xbe4,2,
0xa98,2, 0xd59,2,0x11d1,2, 0xd59,2,
  0x1530,4, 0xa98,2, 0xbe4,2, 0xa98,2,
0xd59,2,0x11d1,2, 0xd59,2,0x1530,4,
   0xa98,2, 0x970,2, 0x8e8,2, 0x970,2,
0x8e8,2, 0xa98,2, 0x970,2, 0xa98,2,
   0x970,2, 0xbe4,2, 0xa98,2, 0xbe4,2,
0xa98,2, 0xd59,2, 0xa98,4, 0xa98,2,
   0xbe4,2, 0xa98,2, 0xd59,2,0x11d1,2,
0xd59,2,0x1530,4, 0xa98,2, 0xbe4,2,
   0xa98,2, 0xd59,2,0x11d1,2, 0xd59,2,
0x1530,4, 0xa98,2, 0x970,2, 0x8e8,2,
   0x970,2, 0x8e8,2, 0xa98,2, 0x970,2,
0xa98,2, 0x970,2, 0xbe4,2, 0xa98,2,
   0xbe4,2, 0xa98,2, 0xd59,2, 0xa98,4,
0x7f0,2, 0x8e8,2, 0xa98,2, 0xd59,2,
  0x11d1,2, 0xd59,2,0x1530,4, 0xa98,2,
0xbe4,2, 0xa98,2, 0xd59,2,0x11d1,2,
   0xd59,2,0x1530,4, 0xa98,2, 0x970,2,
0x8e8,2, 0x970,2, 0x8e8,2, 0xa98,2,
   0x970,2, 0xa98,2, 0x970,2, 0xbe4,2,
0xa98,2, 0xbe4,2, 0xd59,2, 0xbe4,2,
   0xa98,4,0x7d64};

Sint4 dirge[]={

0x7d00, 2,0x11d1, 6,0x11d1, 4,0x11d1, 2,0x11d1, 6, 0xefb, 4, 0xfdf, 2,

0xfdf, 4,0x11d1, 2,0x11d1, 4,0x12e0, 2,0x11d1,12,0x7d00,16,0x7d00,16,
  0x7d00,
16,0x7d00,16,0x7d00,16,0x7d00,16,0x7d00,16,0x7d00,16,0x7d00,16,
  0x7d00,16,
0x7d00,16,0x7d00,16,0x7d64};

Each pair of two numbers (up to 7 pairs per line)
is a pitch and a length
(in that order). The length (numbers 2, 4, 6, 8 etc.)
is in units of
1/72.8 second. The pitch (which starts with "0x", but you can
ignore
those two characters) is a hexadecimal (base 16) number, so you'll
first
want to convert it to decimal. Unless you're a programmer, you'll
almost
certainly need a calculator for this. You'll need a calculator anyway
for
the next bit anyway. If the pitch is 0x7d00 it means silence and if
it's
0x7d64 it means you've reached the end of the song.

Now, divide 1,193,181
by the decimal pitch number. This gives the
frequency in Hz. To convert it to a
note, follow this procedure:
Divide the frequency by 440. Take the log. Divide
by the log of 2. Add 
10. Take the integer part (the part to the left of the
decimal point) but
remember the fractional part (the part to the right of the
decimal point) for
later. Add 1 to the integer part if the fractional part is
.96 or
above. This is the octave number. Octave 10 is the A below middle C to
the
G# above it. Now take the fractional part you remembered earlier,
multiply
it by 12, and round it to the nearest whole number. Then you can look
it
up in this chart:
0 = A
1 = A#/Gb
2 = B
3 = C
4 = C#/Db
5 = D
6 = D#/Eb
7 =
E
8 = F
9 = F#/Gb
10 = G
11 = G#/Ab
12 = A

No kidding, that's all there is to
it! You only need to do this once for
each different pitch value, because you
can use your favorite text
editor/wordprocessor to search and replace in the
list above. For example,
0x11d1 turns out to be C in octave 9, so you could
search for "0x11d1" 
and replace with "C9", for example. Or you could just
write a program/get
a friend to write a program to do all that for you.

The
new level jingle is slightly different. The pitches are
0x8e8, 0x712, 0x5f2,
0x7f0, 0x6ac, 0x54c, 0x712, 0x5f2, 0x4b8, 0x474,
0x474. They're all length 20.
If you want to play the chord, the other
note is 0x23 units of pitch higher,
but that might not correspond to
any recognizable note.

Hope that
helps!

Andrew




0
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:50:42 +0200

From: shaulk@xxxxxxxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic) 

> From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
> Hi Tomer,

>
> > I suppose the biggest problems are compatibility issues.
As
> > soon as the Sound Blaster routines are ready,
>
> I think
they're ready already.
>
> > I can write an OSS wrapper,
>
>
What's an OSS wrapper? (Tell me by email if it's too off topic).

I am curious
too.

>
> > but the graphics will be a bit tougher.  Maybe,
> >
for the Linux version, 320x200x256 should be used, with a 4
> > colour
fixed palette (just enter the RGB values).
>
> Surely there must be a
way to use the same graphics modes DOS Digger uses
> under Linux on a
PC?
>

I was thinking on using it on a terminal first (One can also think
about using 
it under X). Anyway, I do not know how relevant it is but I think
that Linux's 
SVGAlib and/or SVGAText and/or Slang and/or ncurses should be
looked into. And 
I am sure that there is something appropriate, but I do not
know exactly what.

> >>Perhaps I should let someone with more Linux
experience answer this, but
> >>I think so, even if only so the sound
works... I expect there will be
> >>other features in the future which
will work better natively than under
> >>dosemu, such as
networking.
> >
> >Uuh, I seriously doubt that;  if we actually
port Digger to Linux, then
> >it'll be very easy to write networking
routines.
>
> I think you misunderstood what I said. Running Digger
under Dosemu is all
> very well, but when Digger supports networking, that
probably won't work
> under Dosemu, so Digger needs to be ported to
Linux.
>
> >There's an IPX-TCP/IP module both for Windows and for
Linux available
> >under GPL, so it may proove prudent to use it.
>

> But there isn't even a Windows Digger yet, despite several people
who've
> expressed an interest in making it.
>

Another issue to
consider when discussing porting to Linux is the availability 
of the
code.

BTW: I have an xdigger installed. As you can imagine, its a digger game

running under X. However, I do not know if it is very buggy or that I have to

set up my X colors differently, so currently it is practicaly useless to
me.

[23:40:04 shaul]$ cat /usr/doc/xdigger/xdigger.lsm 
Begin3
Title:
xdigger
Version:        1.0.6
Entered-date:   01Jan98
Description:    The
original KC85 - Digger rewritten for X11
                Like Boulderdash
(without scrolling)
Keywords:       X11 games puzzle xdigger
Author:
lang@mueritz-comp.de (Alexander Lang)
Maintained-by:  lang@mueritz-comp.de
(Alexander Lang)
Primary-site:   sunsite.unc.edu
/pub/Linux/games/arcade
Alternate-site: 
Original-site:  
Platforms:
Linux
Copying-policy: GPL
End
[23:40:09 shaul]$











1
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:51:00 +0200
From:
shaulk@xxxxxxxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off topic)


> >> but the graphics will be a bit tougher.  Maybe,
> >>
for the Linux version, 320x200x256 should be used, with a 4
> >>
colour fixed palette (just enter the RGB values).
> >
> >Surely
there must be a way to use the same graphics modes DOS Digger uses
>
>under Linux on a PC?
>
>
> I seriously doubt that's a good idea.
The entire idea behind Linux is
> portability, and for that reason Linux
allows for, but does not support,
> direct hardware access.  Since Linux
will (generally) only run under 386s,
> speed shouldn't be that much of an
issue.
>

1) Linux will not "only run under 386s". Intel Linux will run on
any [3456]86.
There are also ports in various degree of stability and usability
to other 
platforms such as m68k, sparc, alphas.
2) Linux will let you direct
access to H/W if you insists, have root 
privileges and enough knowledge how to
do it. But I agree that it is harder 
then under DOS since, being a multi
tasking multi users OS it has to keep 
direct H/W access limited to the kernel.
I am also sure there are enough Linux 
tools that let you port digger to Linux.
My problem with them is only who they 
are and how to use
them.







2
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:00:19 +0100
From:
Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: spare lives

Hello
Andrew!

I am sad, that you have changed the maximum number of spare lives to
4.
Normally I've had 5 spare lives at a score over 60000 although only 4
are
displayed. How was it in the original digger? When I played the
original
digger I did not come so far because at my 286 it ran much
faster.

Diethelm
Kabus












Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:34:30
+0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Linux
Digger (mostly off topic) 

Hi All,

I've just compiled xdigger. It has nothing
to do like the original digger.
It lookes more like Rockford, another game,
where you have to collect
diamonds.

	Diethelm Kabus

At 00:50 15.01.1999
+0200, you wrote:
>BTW: I have an xdigger installed. As you can imagine, its
a digger game 
>running under X. However, I do not know if it is very buggy
or that I have
to 
>set up my X colors differently, so currently it is
practicaly useless to me.
>
>[23:40:04 shaul]$ cat
/usr/doc/xdigger/xdigger.lsm 
>Begin3
>Title:
xdigger
>Version:        1.0.6
>Entered-date:   01Jan98
>Description:
The original KC85 - Digger rewritten for X11
>                Like
Boulderdash (without scrolling)
>Keywords:       X11 games puzzle
xdigger
>Author:         lang@mueritz-comp.de (Alexander
Lang)
>Maintained-by:  lang@mueritz-comp.de (Alexander
Lang)
>Primary-site:   sunsite.unc.edu
/pub/Linux/games/arcade
>Alternate-site:
>Original-site:

>Platforms:      Linux
>Copying-policy: GPL
>End
>[23:40:09
shaul]$






Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 05:06:20 PST
From: "Or Moses"
<ormoses@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Digger musics

>Each pair of two
numbers (up to 7 pairs per line) is a pitch and a 
length
>(in that order).
The length (numbers 2, 4, 6, 8 etc.) is in units of
>1/72.8 second. The
pitch (which starts with "0x", but you can ignore
>those two characters) is
a hexadecimal (base 16) number, so you'll 
first
>want to convert it to
decimal. Unless you're a programmer, you'll 
almost
>certainly need a
calculator for this. You'll need a calculator anyway 
for
>the next bit
anyway. If the pitch is 0x7d00 it means silence and if 
it's
>0x7d64 it
means you've reached the end of the song.
>
>Now, divide 1,193,181 by the
decimal pitch number. This gives the
>frequency in Hz. To convert it to a
note, follow this procedure:
>Divide the frequency by 440. Take the log.
Divide by the log of 2. Add 
>10. Take the integer part (the part to the
left of the decimal point) 
but
>remember the fractional part (the part to
the right of the decimal 
point) for
>later. Add 1 to the integer part if
the fractional part is .96 or
>above. This is the octave number. Octave 10
is the A below middle C to 
the
>G# above it. Now take the fractional part
you remembered earlier, 
multiply
>it by 12, and round it to the nearest
whole number. Then you can look 
it
>up in this chart:
>0 = A
>1 =
A#/Gb
>2 = B
>3 = C
>4 = C#/Db
>5 = D
>6 = D#/Eb
>7 = E
>8
= F
>9 = F#/Gb
>10 = G
>11 = G#/Ab
>12 = A
>
>No kidding,
that's all there is to it! You only need to do this once 
for
>each
different pitch value, because you can use your favorite
text
>editor/wordprocessor to search and replace in the list above. For

example,
>0x11d1 turns out to be C in octave 9, so you could search for
"0x11d1" 
>and replace with "C9", for example. Or you could just write a

program/get
>a friend to write a program to do all that for
you.
>
>The new level jingle is slightly different. The pitches
are
>0x8e8, 0x712, 0x5f2, 0x7f0, 0x6ac, 0x54c, 0x712, 0x5f2, 0x4b8, 0x474,

>0x474. They're all length 20. If you want to play the chord, the
other
>note is 0x23 units of pitch higher, but that might not correspond
to
>any recognizable note.
>
>Hope that
helps!
>
>Andrew
>
Thank you, sure it does!
I am also started learning
C now (in school) so I was wondering if you 
could send me the source code of
digger.

Thank you very much,
Or
Moses





Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:16:29 +0100
From: "Jan
Van Nieuwenhove" <Jan_VN@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: 3D


-----Original
Message-----
From: Tomer Gabel <gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
To:
digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date: donderdag 14 januari 1999
20:16
Subject: [digger] Re: 3D


>From: "Tomer Gabel"
<gabelj@gezernet.co.il>
>
>>>>why is that? are you against
progress for some dark reason?
>>>>that's why Hitler was german...
maybe...
>>>
>>>
>>>Ha?  I find this remark in poor
taste.
>>
>>chill Tomer.... If I offended someone... I doth
apologize
>
>
>It's not really about offense, it's about Hitler having
absolutely
>nothing with it.  Heck, this is off-topic, let's cut it
out.

>
I agree... I'm sorry I ever mention
him...

>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
---------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your
subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at
http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on
the
left.
>





Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:02:38 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: digger


-----Original
Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com
<digger@onelist.com>
Date:   14  1999 21:18
Subject:
[digger] Re: digger



>> That's not swearing, it's mearly an accurate
account of some cards'
>> disfunctioning RAMDACs.  Perhaps the timing
code isn't all that
>> accurate, then.
>
>Well, given that it seems
to work fine on most computers (and I spent a
>lot of time tuning it, and
making sure it should always work properly) I
>think it's more likely to be
a hardware problem or a conflict with some
>bizarre TSR which reprograms the
timer at random. Either way, it's very
>strange.


Try and run it on a clean
boot, then.

>>It'll take a whole lot more, I'll have to research Linux
first if I
>>decide to undertake this as it'll be my first Linux
programming project.
>
>Ah, of course. Still, think of the
kudos!


Uuuuh?

>>I too think that as many people as possible should
play Digger, but who
>>the hell plays it on XTs?  I see your point, but
still.  I think aiming
>>for 286 or 386 compatibility/performance would
be a better idea.
>
>But there wouldn't be much advantage. What you'd
gain is an executable
>which ran slightly faster on computers it ran
perfectly fast on to start
>with. What you'd lose is the ability to run it
on an XT if you wanted to.
>We have an XT in our house, and should my
brother start playing Digger
>again I'm sure he'd prefer to use Remastered.
So there's one. I'm sure
>there are lots of redundant XTs lying around which
could be put to good
>use as Digger machines (although having said that,
Digger Remastered has
>*made* a lot of XTs redundant!)


Hehe :)  Well, no,
I meant that we should keep it as compatible with XTs
as possible (not turn on
386 optimization), just make sure that it does not
impair progress on
Digger.

>>And then you'll spend ages ironing out all the bugs after you
rewrite
>>in C++.  Only this time, you'll have much less because you
don't have
>>to literally convert the assembler code to C.
>
>Well,
since I've never programmed anything in C++ before I'd have loads of
>bugs
:-).


That's something completely different, mind you :)

>>I warn you,
if this gets out to the public - - well, I know where you
>>live, and I
have ties in the Romanian Mafia!
>
>Uh, oh. My mistake. Tomer didn't
agree with me, everybody!


Much better, uh yeah...

>>Did you try mixing
them?  Or does it only sound wrong in theory?
>
>Well, it doesn't sound
too bad in theory, the main problem being that the
>sound effects are
reduced in volume by 1/3. But I've noticed that changing
>the tiniest thing
in the sound routines makes sound effects that are
>noticably and even
annoyingly different from the original Digger sound.
>Mainly the thing is
that I want it to be as close to the original as
>possible.


Perhaps that's
becuase you tried to manipulate the samples while they're
unsigned.  Try:

mov
al,[sample]
sub al,128
sar al,1                      ; in order to halve
volume
add al,128
mov [sample],al

Of course, this can (and should) be heavily
optimized.  Then again,
perhaps this is best on an XT (providing that you don't
forget to
use
words).






Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:08:08 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger
musics


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:
  14  1999 21:55
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger musics



>But
you'd have to read my C code to understand them! I have them here.


No I
won't, I'll just take my synth and rerecord them.  Besides, what's the
deal
'bout reading  your C code?


-[ Huge snip ]-

>Hope that helps!


No
:)






Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:25:22 +0200
From: "Tomer
Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off topic)



-----Original Message-----
From: Diethelm Kabus
<dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: digger@onelist.com
<digger@onelist.com>
Date:   15  1999 14:36
Subject: [digger]
Re: Linux Digger (mostly off topic)


>I've just compiled xdigger. It has
nothing to do like the original digger.
>It lookes more like Rockford,
another game, where you have to collect
>diamonds.


Yuck, I've always hated
Rockford.






Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:26:21 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger musics

>Thank
you, sure it does!
>I am also started learning C now (in school) so I was
wondering if you 
>could send me the source code of digger.


It won't help
you - it's complex, messy and rather advanced, and it
also includes assembler
portions.

Besides, the C you learn in Israeli schools won't help you
jack.






Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:08:27 +0000 (GMT)
From:
Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger Update

In response to
recent requests, I've added some new options to Digger.
Once you've downloaded
the latest version from http://www.digger.org, the
/I option will let you start
on the level of your choice whilst the /U
option will allow you to collect as
many extra lives as you like (limited
only by the number of points you can
score). Bear in mind, though, that
games recorded with the /I option are
ineligible for the hall of fame.
Games recorded with /U are, but your score may
be lower than you think
because the last few lives won't count.

Keep Digging,


Andrew





Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:15:06 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic) 

Hi Shaul,

> Another issue to consider when discussing porting to
Linux is the availability 
> of the code.

What do you mean? I have all the
code right
here.

Andrew




0
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:19:53 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic) 

Hi Tomer,

> >I've just compiled xdigger. It has nothing to do
like the original
> >digger.  It lookes more like Rockford, another game,
where you have to
> >collect diamonds.
>
> Yuck, I've always
hated Rockford. 

I've never played it. What's it like? Where can I get a copy?
Come to
think of it, does anyone want to try and compile XDigger for DOS? I
know
it's a completely different game but I'd be interested to see what
it's
like.

Andrew




1
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:33 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger
musics

Hi Tomer,

> >But you'd have to read my C code to understand
them! I have them here.
>
> No I won't, I'll just take my synth and
rerecord them.

Oh, I see (but doing it that way would make it sound different
to the
original, unless you were very careful).

> Besides, what's the deal
'bout reading  your C code?

You don't like it. You say it's messy,
etc.

Andrew




2
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:27:07 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: digger

Hi Tomer,

>
>> That's not swearing, it's mearly an accurate account of some
cards'
> >> disfunctioning RAMDACs.  Perhaps the timing code isn't all
that
> >> accurate, then.
> >
> >Well, given that it seems
to work fine on most computers (and I spent a
> >lot of time tuning it,
and making sure it should always work properly) I
> >think it's more
likely to be a hardware problem or a conflict with some
> >bizarre TSR
which reprograms the timer at random. Either way, it's very
>
>strange.
>
> Try and run it on a clean boot, then.

I suggested
that, but I haven't heard what the result was.

> >>It'll take a whole
lot more, I'll have to research Linux first if I
> >>decide to
undertake this as it'll be my first Linux programming project.
> >
>
>Ah, of course. Still, think of the kudos!
>
> Uuuuh?

Lots of people
thanked me for making Digger work on modern computers. If
you port Digger to
Linux I'm sure many people will thank you too.

> >>I too think that
as many people as possible should play Digger, but who
> >>the hell
plays it on XTs?  I see your point, but still.  I think aiming
> >>for
286 or 386 compatibility/performance would be a better idea.
> >
>
>But there wouldn't be much advantage. What you'd gain is an executable
>
>which ran slightly faster on computers it ran perfectly fast on to
start
> >with. What you'd lose is the ability to run it on an XT if you
wanted to.
> >We have an XT in our house, and should my brother start
playing Digger
> >again I'm sure he'd prefer to use Remastered. So
there's one. I'm sure
> >there are lots of redundant XTs lying around
which could be put to good
> >use as Digger machines (although having
said that, Digger Remastered has
> >*made* a lot of XTs redundant!)
>

> Hehe :)  Well, no, I meant that we should keep it as compatible with
XTs
> as possible (not turn on 386 optimization), just make sure that it
does not
> impair progress on Digger.

Oh, that's alright then, that's what
I think, too, but that seems to be
the opposite of what you said before.

>
>>Did you try mixing them?  Or does it only sound wrong in theory?
>
>
> >Well, it doesn't sound too bad in theory, the main problem being
that the
> >sound effects are reduced in volume by 1/3. But I've noticed
that changing
> >the tiniest thing in the sound routines makes sound
effects that are
> >noticably and even annoyingly different from the
original Digger sound.
> >Mainly the thing is that I want it to be as
close to the original as
> >possible.
>
> Perhaps that's becuase
you tried to manipulate the samples while they're
> unsigned.

No, I
didn't try it. But the point is it definitely would sound different
to the
original Digger unless you do it a certain, precise way, which is
quite
complicated. I think I'm nearly there, but I have no way to test it
until
March.

> Try:
>
> mov al,[sample]
> sub al,128
> sar al,1
      ; in order to halve volume
> add al,128
> mov [sample],al
>

> Of course, this can (and should) be heavily optimized.  Then again,
>
perhaps this is best on an XT (providing that you don't forget to use
>
words).

Uh, no. That's a gross oversimplification. Trying to explain all
the
subtleties of how the two timer channels interact with the PC speaker
gate
to mix the music in the original would take far too long, so I
won't
bother.

Andrew




3
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:39:09
+0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Linux
Digger (mostly off topic) 

At 16:19 15.01.1999 +0000, you wrote:
>From:
Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>Hi Tomer,
>
>> >I've
just compiled xdigger. It has nothing to do like the original
>>
>digger.  It lookes more like Rockford, another game, where you have
to
>> >collect diamonds.
>>
>> Yuck, I've always hated
Rockford. 
>
>I've never played it. What's it like? Where can I get a
copy? Come to
>think of it, does anyone want to try and compile XDigger for
DOS? I know
>it's a completely different game but I'd be interested to see
what it's
>like.
>
>Andrew

Hi Andrew,

I will try to compile it. I
give no garantee that it works. When I have
linked it, I will send it to
you.

Shall I send you Rockford? You will laugh, when you here the stupid
music
(also over PC-speaker)!

I understand Tomer, when he says that he always
hated
Rockford...

Diethelm



4
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:07:28 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger
(mostly off topic) 

Hi Diethelm,

> I will try to compile it. I give no
garantee that it works. When I have
> linked it, I will send it to
you.

Great, thanks.

> Shall I send you Rockford? You will laugh, when you
here the stupid music
> (also over PC-speaker)!

Yes, please. Be careful to
send to my email address, rather than the
entire list,
though.

Andrew




5
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:07:38 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger
musics

Hi Or, and Tomer,

> >Thank you, sure it does!
> >I am also
started learning C now (in school) so I was wondering if you 
> >could
send me the source code of digger.

Okay, (sent by email).

> It won't help
you - it's complex, messy and rather advanced, and it
> also includes
assembler portions.

Well, when I was learning C I found it very helpful to
look at the code
for complicated programs.

> Besides, the C you learn in
Israeli schools won't help you jack.

Any C is better than no
C...

Andrew




6
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:59:57 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic) 

Hi Diethelm,

Thanks for Rockford - that's a pretty good game! It
reminds me of "Repton"
a microcomputer game that was very popular here a few
years
ago.

Andrew




7
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:48:13 +0200

From: "Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Linux Digger
(mostly off topic) 


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:
  15  1999 18:15
Subject: [digger] Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)


>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>Hi Shaul,

>
>> Another issue to consider when discussing porting to Linux is
the
availability
>> of the code.
>
>What do you mean? I have all
the code right here.


Linux is based on GPL, which means that if you publish
Digger under GPL
as well you'll have to release the source
code.





8
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:48:35 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic) 


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:
  15  1999 18:20
Subject: [digger] Re: Linux Digger (mostly off
topic)


>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>Hi Tomer,

>
>> >I've just compiled xdigger. It has nothing to do like the
original
>> >digger.  It lookes more like Rockford, another game,
where you have to
>> >collect diamonds.
>>
>> Yuck, I've
always hated Rockford.
>
>I've never played it. What's it like? Where can
I get a copy? Come to
>think of it, does anyone want to try and compile
XDigger for DOS? I know
>it's a completely different game but I'd be
interested to see what it's
>like.


I can send it to you if you really want
to, but it really does
stink.






9
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:49:08 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger
musics


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:
  15  1999 18:22
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger musics


>Oh, I
see (but doing it that way would make it sound different to the
>original,
unless you were very careful).


Who gives, he just wanted the notes.

>>
Besides, what's the deal 'bout reading  your C code?
>
>You don't like
it. You say it's messy, etc.


Yeah well, it is.
:)





0
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:55:03 +0200
From: "Tomer
Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: digger


-----Original
Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com
<digger@onelist.com>
Date:   15  1999 18:27
Subject: [digger]
Re: digger


>> Try and run it on a clean boot, then.
>
>I
suggested that, but I haven't heard what the result was.


People?

>>
Uuuuh?
>
>Lots of people thanked me for making Digger work on modern
computers. If
>you port Digger to Linux I'm sure many people will thank you
too.


Oh.  Well, that's not (all of) the point. :)

>> Hehe :)  Well,
no, I meant that we should keep it as compatible with XTs
>> as possible
(not turn on 386 optimization), just make sure that it does
not
>> impair
progress on Digger.
>
>Oh, that's alright then, that's what I think, too,
but that seems to be
>the opposite of what you said before.


Aim = Don't
limit yourself with features != 386 optimization;

>> Perhaps that's
becuase you tried to manipulate the samples while they're
>>
unsigned.
>
>No, I didn't try it. But the point is it definitely would
sound different
>to the original Digger unless you do it a certain, precise
way, which is
>quite complicated. I think I'm nearly there, but I have no
way to test it
>until March.


Send it to me, I'll test it.

>Uh, no.
That's a gross oversimplification. Trying to explain all the
>subtleties of
how the two timer channels interact with the PC speaker gate
>to mix the
music in the original would take far too long, so I won't
>bother.


It was
just a demonstration of how to change samples without **cking
them
up.




1
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:56:47 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger
musics


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:
  15  1999 19:08
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger musics



>>
Besides, the C you learn in Israeli schools won't help you jack.
>
>Any C
is better than no C...


I see you've never been to Israel
:)





2
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:31:20 PST
From: "Or
Moses" <ormoses@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Digger
musics




>
>>> Besides, the C you learn in Israeli schools won't
help you jack.
>>
>>Any C is better than no C...
>
>
>I
see you've never been to Israel :)
>
Tomer is right.
But I have this new
teacher, he said to us: "I used to learn very slowly 
and it was annoying, I
will teach you quick."
Well, I don't know if it counts quick, but we're 9th
grade and in 3 
lessons we learned: Variables etc., Input/Output, For-While-Do,
If-else.
So I guess It's pretty quick (for 3 lessons) if me and 1 more kid

succeded to understand.

BTW: Tomer, Where I should learn C if I want to
advance more (exept 
school)?

Thank you,
Or
Moses



3
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:59:28 +0200
From: "Tomer
Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Digger musics

>>I see
you've never been to Israel :)
>>
>Tomer is right.

Always ;)

>But
I have this new teacher, he said to us: "I used to learn very slowly 
>and
it was annoying, I will teach you quick."

I don't know what your teacher
thinks, but hey - guess we're about
to find out.

>Well, I don't know if it
counts quick, but we're 9th grade and in 3 

They teach you C in 9th grade?
They (miserably) tried to teach
me Pascal on the 9th grade.  Boy, going down on
our computers
teacher was so fun :)

>lessons we learned: Variables etc.,
Input/Output, For-While-Do, If-else.
>So I guess It's pretty quick (for 3
lessons) if me and 1 more kid 
>succeded to understand.


Yes, it is quite
fast, but ALL of the class is supposed to understand,
not just two
students.

>BTW: Tomer, Where I should learn C if I want to advance more
(exept 
>school)?


Take it from my experience - home.  I know more than all
my school's
teachers combined, and have since the age of 10.  Schools
can't
teach you
shit.












Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:34:47 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger


Hi Tomer,

>>> Another issue to consider when discussing porting to
Linux is the
>>> availability of the code.
>>
>>What do
you mean? I have all the code right here.
>
>Linux is based on GPL, which
means that if you publish Digger under GPL
>as well you'll have to release
the source code.

Only if it's released as part of Linux. I'm sure there's no
clause in GPL which
means that you can't run non-GPL programs under Linux. Of
course, the source
code should be released anyway so that it can be compiled
for the target
platform on installation. It's sort of "released" anyway: it's
just too much
bother to upload it to the website every time I change
something.

However, I may GPL the source code anyway, just to conform. The
only trouble
with that is, if Windmill software comes back and wants to sell
Digger
Remastered, they'd have to use the last version which wasn't GPLled.
Chizz, you
wouldn't have thought programmers would need degrees in law to work
out what
they can do with their own programs, would you...

>>> Yuck,
I've always hated Rockford.
>>
>>I've never played it. What's it
like? Where can I get a copy? Come to
>>think of it, does anyone want to
try and compile XDigger for DOS? I know
>>it's a completely different
game but I'd be interested to see what it's
>>like.
>
>I can send
it to you if you really want to, but it really does stink.

As you probably
gathered from an earlier post, Diethelm sent it to me. It
doesn't stink *that*
badly. The non-continuous scrolling is a little annoying,
but otherwise it's
quite a nice game. I've certainly had people send me (and
ask me for) games
which are *much* worse since I first uploaded Digger
Remastered. Of course,
Rockford is tic-tac-toe compared with Digger... ;-)

>>Oh, I see (but
doing it that way would make it sound different to the
>>original, unless
you were very careful).
>
>Who gives, he just wanted the notes.

Well,
maybe he wanted them in the same key and octave as the Digger music,
with
precisely the same timing. Much easier just to crunch the
numbers.

>>> Uuuuh?
>>
>>Lots of people thanked me for
making Digger work on modern computers. If
>>you port Digger to Linux I'm
sure many people will thank you too.
>
>Oh.  Well, that's not (all of)
the point. :)

True. When I wrote Digger Remastered I had no idea anyone other
than me would
want to play it.

>>> Hehe :)  Well, no, I meant that we
should keep it as compatible with XTs
>>> as possible (not turn on 386
optimization), just make sure that it does not
>>> impair progress on
Digger.
>>
>>Oh, that's alright then, that's what I think, too, but
that seems to be
>>the opposite of what you said before.
>
>Aim =
Don't limit yourself with features != 386 optimization;

So to sum up (and
hopefully wrap up) this little sub-thread: DOS Digger will
continue to run on
everything from an XT upwards, until I add something which
is impossible to
reproduce on such an old computer (which may or may not be
the 3D game), at
which point development will split in two: the main DOS Digger
will have all
the features and run on (probably) 386s upward. XT Digger may or
may not then
have new features added to it depending on how essential those
features are. So
it would be good to add all the features that XT Digger could
possibly need
before starting Digger 3D...

Linux Digger doesn't need such considerations
because it will be compiled for
the target processor on installation, which
will generally be 32 bit processors
so all the features can be switched
on.

Windows Digger will be somewhere in between. There may be a 16 and 32
bit
versions along the same lines as DOS Digger I described 2 paragraphs
ago.

But none of these things are important at the moment because Digger
hasn't
been compiled for Windows or Linux yet, and doesn't have any features
which
require anything more than an XT.

>>> Perhaps that's becuase
you tried to manipulate the samples while they're
>>>
unsigned.
>>
>>No, I didn't try it. But the point is it definitely
would sound different
>>to the original Digger unless you do it a
certain, precise way, which is
>>quite complicated. I think I'm nearly
there, but I have no way to test it
>>until March.
>
>Send it to
me, I'll test it.

Well, I haven't got it to compile yet. I may not get time
for that until March.
And trying to debug a program over email, I've recently
discovered, is a very
slow and frustrating job.

>>Uh, no. That's a gross
oversimplification. Trying to explain all the
>>subtleties of how the two
timer channels interact with the PC speaker gate
>>to mix the music in
the original would take far too long, so I won't
>>bother.
>
>It
was just a demonstration of how to change samples without **cking
them
>up.

I can do that. It's generating the samples that's the
problem.

Also, your code is inefficient. If you think about it, you can halve
the volume
of a sample with one fewer operataion, as follows:

mov al,
[sample]
shr al,1                      ; in order to halve volume
add al,64
      ; correct offset
mov [sample],al


>>> Besides, the C you learn
in Israeli schools won't help you jack.
>>
>>Any C is better than
no C...
>
>I see you've never been to Israel :)

This is
true...

Andrew





Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:40:10 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Digger musics
(fwd)

Hi Or,

>1) thanks to Andrew & Tomer who helped me a lot (Andrew
helped, Tomer 
>tried to help...).

No problem.

>2) When I run Digger
with SoundBlaster I don't hear any music (just the 
>sounds), is it a
bug?

The background music isn't available with SoundBlaster
yet.

Andrew





Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:50:54 +0200
From:
"Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Linux Digger


>>Linux is based on GPL, which means that if you publish Digger under
GPL
>>as well you'll have to release the source code.
>
>Only if
it's released as part of Linux. I'm sure there's no clause in
GPL
which
>means that you can't run non-GPL programs under Linux. Of course,
the
source
>code should be released anyway so that it can be compiled for
the target
>platform on installation. It's sort of "released" anyway: it's
just too
much
>bother to upload it to the website every time I change
something.


Quite, quite.

>However, I may GPL the source code anyway, just
to conform. The only
trouble
>with that is, if Windmill software comes back
and wants to sell Digger
>Remastered, they'd have to use the last version
which wasn't GPLled. Chizz,
you
>wouldn't have thought programmers would
need degrees in law to work out
what
>they can do with their own programs,
would you...


Hehe :)

>>I can send it to you if you really want to, but
it really does stink.
>
>As you probably gathered from an earlier post,
Diethelm sent it to me. It
>doesn't stink *that* badly. The non-continuous
scrolling is a little
annoying,
>but otherwise it's quite a nice game. I've
certainly had people send me
(and
>ask me for) games which are *much* worse
since I first uploaded Digger
>Remastered. Of course, Rockford is
tic-tac-toe compared with Digger... ;-)


Yes, it is...

>Well, maybe he
wanted them in the same key and octave as the Digger music,
with
>precisely
the same timing. Much easier just to crunch the numbers.


Guess it might be.
Perhaps a utility is in place.

>>Oh.  Well, that's not (all of) the
point. :)
>
>True. When I wrote Digger Remastered I had no idea anyone
other than me
would
>want to play it.


You should've known better
:)

>>Aim = Don't limit yourself with features != 386
optimization;
>
>So to sum up (and hopefully wrap up) this little
sub-thread: DOS Digger
will
>continue to run on everything from an XT
upwards, ungntil I add somethi
which
>is impossible to reproduce on such an
old computer (which may or may not be
>the 3D game), at which point
development will split in two: the main DOS
Digger
>will have all the
features and run on (probably) 386s upward. XT Digger may
or
>may not then
have new features added to it depending on how essential those
>features
are. So it would be good to add all the features that XT
Digger
could
>possibly need before starting Digger
3D...


Agweed.

>Linux Digger doesn't need such considerations because it
will be compiled
for
>the target processor on installation, which will
generally be 32 bit
processors
>so all the features can be switched
on.


Yuh.

>Windows Digger will be somewhere in between. There may be a 16
and 32 bit
>versions along the same lines as DOS Digger I described 2
paragraphs ago.


OK, so Windows Digger should aim for 286s (basic 3.1
reqs).

>But none of these things are important at the moment because Digger
hasn't
>been compiled for Windows or Linux yet, and doesn't have any
features which
>require anything more than an XT.


... yet.

>Well, I
haven't got it to compile yet. I may not get time for that until
March.
>And
trying to debug a program over email, I've recently discovered, is
a
very
>slow and frustrating job.


Why?  How exactly have you discovered
this?

>>It was just a demonstration of how to change samples without
**cking them
>>up.
>
>I can do that. It's generating the samples
that's the problem.


Oh.

>Also, your code is inefficient. If you think
about it, you can halve the
volume
>of a sample with one fewer operataion,
as follows:


As I was saying, it was an unoptimized, simple piece of code
meant
simply to show how it's
done.







Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:11:21 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger 

Hi Tomer,


> >>Oh.  Well, that's not (all of) the point. :)
> >
>
>True. When I wrote Digger Remastered I had no idea anyone other than
me
> >would want to play it.
>
> You should've known better
:)

How could I? I had never so much as met anyone who'd played Digger on
any
computer except mine. I thought it was a good game, but I had no idea
it
was such a classic.

> >Windows Digger will be somewhere in between.
There may be a 16 and 32 bit
> >versions along the same lines as DOS
Digger I described 2 paragraphs ago.
>
> OK, so Windows Digger should
aim for 286s (basic 3.1 reqs).

Sounds fair to me.

> >But none of these
things are important at the moment because Digger hasn't
> >been compiled
for Windows or Linux yet, and doesn't have any features which
> >require
anything more than an XT.
>
> ... yet.

Quite.

> >Well, I haven't
got it to compile yet. I may not get time for that until
> >March. And
trying to debug a program over email, I've recently
> >discovered, is a
very slow and frustrating job.
>
> Why?  How exactly have you discovered
this?

Trying to figure out why Digger doesn't work when you compile it,
without
access to your compiler or
libraries.

Andrew





Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:58:46 +0200

From: "Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Linux Digger


>How could I? I had never so much as met anyone who'd played Digger on
any
>computer except mine. I thought it was a good game, but I had no idea
it
>was such a classic.


Well, I guess that if you lived in Israel you'd
know.  It was one of the
most
popular games ever.

I've finally managed to
successfuly compile Digger (works perfectly).  I'm
currently working on a setup
module.






Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:11:51 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Linux Digger 

Hi Tomer,


> Well, I guess that if you lived in Israel you'd know.  It was one of
the
> most popular games ever.

Yes, I've noticed that an unnaturally large
proportion of the people
who've emailed me about Digger are from Israel.

>
I've finally managed to successfuly compile Digger (works perfectly).  I'm
>
currently working on a setup module.

Great! Let me know when you get the setup
module
working.

Andrew





Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:54:11 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger Update

The
latest version of Digger, available at http://www.digger.org, fixes a
minor bug
which caused the game to stall if you leave it paused for too
long.

Keep
Digging,


Andrew












Date: Mon, 18 Jan
1999 17:28:22 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus
<dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: playall.bat

Hello Andrew, hello all
!

The batch playall.bat did not work. It should be:

@echo off
set
DIGPLAY=1
:start
for %%i in (*.drf) do call play.bat %%i %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7
%8
rem DAK: not if "DIGPLAY"=="TRUE" better:
if %DIGPLAY%==1 goto start
rem
DAK: unset DIGPLAY only here and not in play.bat
set DIGPLAY=

and play.bat
should be:

@echo off
rem DAK: not: if not "DIGPLAY"=="TRUE" better:
if not
%DIGPLAY%==1 goto end
rem DAK: digger does not take f.e. the /C parameter
before the /E therefore
/E is at the end.
digger %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9
/e:%1
if errorlevel 1 goto end
rem DAK: do not unset DIGPLAY here, better:
set
DIGPLAY=0
:end

To start playall.bat with a pif-file under Windows NT you
should enter the
following line (it's because of the environment; you will get
the error
message "environment out of space".) in the command
line:

D:\WINNT\System32\cmd.exe /C playall.bat ... ...

Keep
Digging!

	Diethelm




Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:47:28 +0200

From: "Tomer Gabel" <gabelj@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Inactivity

Hello
Andrew, all...

Sorry about being inactive for a couple of days. I'm
rebuilding
and reinstalling my system (yet again),
and both Linux, Windows and the actual
computer
should actually work now.

Andrew:  I'm still working on
it.

Tomer






Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:36:58 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: playall.bat

Hi Diethelm,


Thanks for the batch file info: I've updated it on the website. Batch
file
writing is a dying art, but you put my effort to
shame!

Andrew











Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999
01:01:28 +0200
From: shaulk@xxxxxxxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Linux
Digger. 1) source. 2) devel tools.

1) Can the source be put on the web site ?
Sent to this list from time to time 
? Have its own digger-src list ? Can I get
it ?
It's not neccesarily have to be under the GPL. It could be under a license

like BSD, which is more liberal, or, perhaps a self made license.

2) I am
going to get equipped with some DOS (or WIN) tools that will enable me 
to
learn more about digger's src. What tools Do I need to compile the source

under DOS ? Will Borland's TC 2 suffice ? Is that set of tools going to be

changed in the near future ?
I hope that Borland's TC 2 alone can do it,
mainly because I think that it 
works fine under dosemu (And this can also
explain the fact that digger seems 
to work pretty well under
dosemu)













Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999
13:21:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re:
Linux Digger. 1) source. 2) devel tools.

Hi Shaul,

> 1) Can the source be
put on the web site ?

Uh, only if it's really necessary. It's a pain in the
neck to make the
archive - I'd rather only do it when I have to. I suppose I
could automate
the process...

> Sent to this list from time to time?

No.
This list is not for binaries: I'm sure that most of the people on
this list
don't want to download 150K of source code with their email
every time Digger
is updated.

> Have its own digger-src list ?

See comment for putting it
on the web page.

> Can I get it ?

Yes, definitely. As it says in the web
site, you just have to ask. I'll
email it to you later.

> It's not
neccesarily have to be under the GPL. It could be under a license 
> like
BSD, which is more liberal, or, perhaps a self made license.

Hmm. I'll
investigate.

> 2) I am going to get equipped with some DOS (or WIN) tools
that will
> enable me to learn more about digger's src. What tools Do I need
to
> compile the source under DOS ? Will Borland's TC 2 suffice ? Is that
set
> of tools going to be changed in the near future ?
> I hope that
Borland's TC 2 alone can do it, mainly because I think that it 
> works fine
under dosemu (And this can also explain the fact that digger seems 
> to
work pretty well under dosemu)

I've been compiling Digger with TC 2 since a
very early version, so that
definitely works. I've only recently moved over to
BC++4.52, and the
libraries that come with that compiler are so big and bulky
I'm still
linking Digger with the TC 2 libraries.

Tomer has succeeded in
compiling Digger with BC3 as well. I don't know
about any other compilers, but
it should be possible to coax it to compile
with most other compilers (although
in 16 bit mode this may be a little
complicated). There shouldn't be any
problems compiling in 32 bit mode,
except for the fact that there are no 32 bit
I/O or timing routines at
the
moment.

Andrew





Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:40:55 +0100

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: C-Sources

Hi
Andrew,

everybody is talking about the sources of digger. As I'm still having
a
TC++ 2.0 Compiler I would try to compile digger too. I'm only interested
in
the code. I think for more I have not enough time (my work and my
family).
Please send me the sources!
Are there no Assembler-routines that I
have to assemble with MASM or TASM ?
Do you have a makefile?

Still
digging...
		Diethelm




Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:47:52 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: C-Sources

Hi
Diethelm,

Okay, I've sent you the Digger source code by email as well. 

>
Are there no Assembler-routines that I have to assemble with MASM or TASM
?

There is a file of assembler routines (sorry, I was going to mention this

but forgot). They will assemble without modification with the
freeware
assembler A86, which you can find at
http://eji.com/a86/index.htm

> Do you have a makefile?

Yes, it's included
with the source distribution, as are all the graphics
from the
game.

Andrew





Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:42:37 +0100

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: C-Sources

Hi
Andrew,

At 15:47 20.01.1999 +0000, you wrote:
>From: Andrew Jenner
<amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>Hi Diethelm,
>
>Okay, I've sent you the
Digger source code by email as well. 

Thank You for sending me the code of
Digger. Oh, it is beautiful! All this
pure C-Code and not that ....ing C++
!

Are You not afraid, that one day there will be another Digger in the Web,

based on the same (Your) sources? Be careful with sending the sources
to
everybody. Ok -- I'm not everybody.

I think you should inform yourself, if
it is possible to get a copyright on
Digger. When Windmill does not exist
anymore, they could have no copyright.
Tell me, if I'm wrong.

Thank You,
and
keep
digging!

	Diethelm









Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:06:43 +0000
(GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Digger Update

The
latest version of Digger, available at http://www.digger.org, fixes a
minor bug
in previous versions which caused player 1 to score 250 points
if player 2
dropped a bag on a monster in old-style 2 player mode.

Keep Digging,


Andrew





Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:16:44 +0000 (GMT)

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: C-Sources

Hi Diethelm,


> Thank You for sending me the code of Digger. Oh, it is beautiful! All
this
> pure C-Code and not that ....ing C++ !

I must say I like your
attitude much more than Tomer's!

> Are You not afraid, that one day there
will be another Digger in the Web,
> based on the same (Your) sources? Be
careful with sending the sources to
> everybody. Ok -- I'm not
everybody.

Not really. If people want to make new versions, that's fine by me,
but if
they add exciting new bells and whistles, I would expect them to send
them
to me so that I can add them to the "official" version. I don't want
to
restrict distribution of the source code, because I like the idea
that
people should be able to access the sources of the software that they
run.
Since Digger Remastered is free and unrestricted, there's no
point
"cracking" it or anything like that.

> I think you should inform
yourself, if it is possible to get a copyright on
> Digger. When Windmill
does not exist anymore, they could have no copyright.
> Tell me, if I'm
wrong.

The law says that the copyright continues to be valid for 75 years
after
the company has disappeared or the individual has died (something
like
that). So, whilst pretty much all the code in Digger Remastered has
been
written by me (and Julian, in the case of the Acorn version), since
it
still uses Windmill's graphics and some of their algorithms, they still
have
copyright on it (and I've kept a copyright message embedded into the
executable
to reflect
this).

Andrew








From shaulk@netvision.net.il Mon Jan 25 13:08:39 1999
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:37:55 +0200
From: shaul <shaulk@netvision.net.il>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Cc: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Off topic. What is wrong with C++ ? 

From: shaulk@netvision.net.il (shaul)

> From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> At 15:47 20.01.1999 +0000, you wrote:
> >From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
> >
> >Hi Diethelm,
> >
> >Okay, I've sent you the Digger source code by email as well. 
> 
> Thank You for sending me the code of Digger. Oh, it is beautiful! All this
> pure C-Code and not that ....ing C++ !
> 

What is wrong with C++ ?




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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Mon Jan 25 23:21:49 1999
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:20:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Off topic. What is wrong with C++ ? 

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Shaul,

> > Thank You for sending me the code of Digger. Oh, it is beautiful! All this
> > pure C-Code and not that ....ing C++ !
> 
> What is wrong with C++ ?

See http://www.daemon.org/c++-hoax.html

Just to bring this back on topic a little, has anyone else had problems
recording 2-player simultaneous games?

Andrew


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From dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Tue Jan 26 14:32:49 1999
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:13:13 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Off topic. What is wrong with C++ ? 

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

>See http://www.daemon.org/c++-hoax.html

I've read it. Oh, he speaks me from heart (as we germans say).

Diethelm



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Thu Jan 28 12:58:39 1999
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:42:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: Digger Update Mailing List:  ;
Subject: [digger] Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org fixes a
bug in Gauntlet mode. You now cannot lose all your lives.

Keep digging,

Andrew


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From mynotaur@softhome.net Fri Jan 29 13:00:59 1999
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:46:54 +1100
From: Mynotaur <mynotaur@softhome.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: Mynotaur <mynotaur@softhome.net>

At 12:42  28/01/99 +0000, you wrote:
Hi

Just an idea with all the new digger versions coming out, could you start
having version numbers?  It can get a bit confusing working out exactly
what version you have, and if you really need the update.

Thanks,
	Myno


>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org fixes a
>bug in Gauntlet mode. You now cannot lose all your lives.
>
>Keep digging,
>
>Andrew



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From dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fri Jan 29 13:01:02 1999
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:39:26 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

At 16:46 29.01.1999 +1100, you wrote:
>From: Mynotaur <mynotaur@softhome.net>
>Just an idea with all the new digger versions coming out, could you start
>having version numbers?  It can get a bit confusing working out exactly
>what version you have, and if you really need the update.

Hello Mynotaur,

when I load the latest digger version I always save it as a file with f.e.
the name

digger19990128.zip

It would be nice when the file from the web-page would have already such a
name.

	Diethelm

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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Fri Jan 29 13:01:17 1999
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:00:13 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

> >Just an idea with all the new digger versions coming out, could you start
> >having version numbers?  It can get a bit confusing working out exactly
> >what version you have, and if you really need the update.

The date is the version number. Since there isn't any point keeping old
versions of Digger, it can't get that confusing. Just download the latest
version whenever you get an update message (the latest one is always
uploaded at the same time the message is sent) and delete the old ones. If
you're not sure, download anyway: it's not very big.

> Hello Mynotaur,
> 
> when I load the latest digger version I always save it as a file with f.e.
> the name
> 
> digger19990128.zip
> 
> It would be nice when the file from the web-page would have already such a
> name.

Hmm. Is this really necessary? It would mess up my automatic web-site
updating program.

Andrew


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From dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fri Jan 29 13:40:20 1999
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:29:37 +0100
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

Hello Andrew,

At 13:00 29.01.1999 +0000, you wrote:
>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>The date is the version number. Since there isn't any point keeping old
>versions of Digger, it can't get that confusing. Just download the latest
>version whenever you get an update message (the latest one is always
>uploaded at the same time the message is sent) and delete the old ones. If
>you're not sure, download anyway: it's not very big.

Sometimes it is useful to keep the old version(s), that is f.e. when the
new version will not run...

Keep digging and have a nice weekend!
				Diethelm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Dipl.-Ing. Diethelm Kabus             Tel:  ++49-234-9787-42
 ZN GmbH                               Fax:  ++49-234-9787-77
 Universit"atsstr. 160                 mailto:kabus@zn-gmbh.com
 D-44801 Bochum                        http://www.zn-gmbh.com
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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Fri Jan 29 16:08:26 1999
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:07:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

>>The date is the version number. Since there isn't any point keeping old
>>versions of Digger, it can't get that confusing. Just download the latest
>>version whenever you get an update message (the latest one is always
>>uploaded at the same time the message is sent) and delete the old ones. If
>>you're not sure, download anyway: it's not very big.
>
>Sometimes it is useful to keep the old version(s), that is f.e. when the
>new version will not run...

Ah, I suppose. Well, you can always keep one version that you trust in one
directory, and another that is the most up to date. 

Should I put a "last stable version" on the website? The trouble with that is,
later versions are usually more reliable than older ones.

Andrew


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From holograph@usa.net Sat Jan 30 11:45:30 1999
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:26:50 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: Digger Update Mailing List: ; <Digger Update Mailing List: ;>
Date:   28  1999 14:57
Subject: [digger] Digger Update


>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org fixes a
>bug in Gauntlet mode. You now cannot lose all your lives.
>
>Keep digging,
>
>Andrew


Perhaps we should add a subscriber service that would simply autosend
the newest version of Digger to the user...?



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From holograph@usa.net Sat Jan 30 11:45:36 1999
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:27:57 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Mynotaur <mynotaur@softhome.net>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   29  1999 07:50
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update


>From: Mynotaur <mynotaur@softhome.net>
>
>At 12:42  28/01/99 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>Just an idea with all the new digger versions coming out, could you start
>having version numbers?  It can get a bit confusing working out exactly
>what version you have, and if you really need the update.


Good idea.  Andrew: We should add a standardized record to the beginning
of the main C file, which should be present at a constant location (or
perhaps
at the end of the file).  What do you think?



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Sat Jan 30 11:51:41 1999
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:44:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: Digger Update Mailing List:  ;
Subject: [digger] Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org fixes a
bug which prevents 2-player simultaneous games recorded with the music off
from playing back correctly. If anyone has any such recordings that they
would like to keep but which do not play back correctly with this version,
please send them to me.

Keep Digging,

Andrew


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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Sat Jan 30 11:51:45 1999
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:50:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

>Perhaps we should add a subscriber service that would simply autosend
>the newest version of Digger to the user...?

Hmm? Do many people download *every* minor bug fix? Would they want to do
so over email (which is not the best way to send binaries)? I'm not sure
that's a great idea but if someone wants to set it up they're welcome to.

> >Just an idea with all the new digger versions coming out, could you start
> >having version numbers?  It can get a bit confusing working out exactly
> >what version you have, and if you really need the update.
> 
> Good idea.  Andrew: We should add a standardized record to the beginning
> of the main C file, which should be present at a constant location (or
> perhaps at the end of the file).  What do you think?

Uhh, the date is stored with the file: type "DIR DIGGER.EXE" to see it. 
Why on earth would you want it at a constant location within the file,
where no-one can see it? That would also mess up the PKLITE compression.
However, from this version onwards (providing that I remember to update
it) the full version string (including compilist and platform) can be
gleaned by typing "DIGGER /?".

Andrew


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From holograph@usa.net Mon Feb  1 15:17:54 1999
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:29:10 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:  30  1999 13:50
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update


>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>>Perhaps we should add a subscriber service that would simply autosend
>>the newest version of Digger to the user...?
>
>Hmm? Do many people download *every* minor bug fix? Would they want to do
>so over email (which is not the best way to send binaries)? I'm not sure
>that's a great idea but if someone wants to set it up they're welcome to.


Since it's a mear 60k or so, I don't think that should be much of a problem.
I know I, presonally, wouldn't care.

>Uhh, the date is stored with the file: type "DIR DIGGER.EXE" to see it.

And we ALL know how useful MS-DOS filedates are.

>Why on earth would you want it at a constant location within the file,
>where no-one can see it? That would also mess up the PKLITE compression.

No, because if you add it after the PKLITE it works (if I remember
correctly);
also, it would make detection of previous Digger versions possible.
Besides,
it's just a suggestion, something I used to pull off when writing the
software
for my parents' store.  (I'm in the process of writing a new version, in C
this
time :))

>However, from this version onwards (providing that I remember to update
>it) the full version string (including compilist and platform) can be
>gleaned by typing "DIGGER /?".


... and the command line parameters too, I hope.



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Mon Feb  1 15:50:14 1999
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:26:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

> >>Perhaps we should add a subscriber service that would simply autosend
> >>the newest version of Digger to the user...?
> >
> >Hmm? Do many people download *every* minor bug fix? Would they want to do
> >so over email (which is not the best way to send binaries)? I'm not sure
> >that's a great idea but if someone wants to set it up they're welcome to.
> 
> Since it's a mear 60k or so, I don't think that should be much of a problem.
> I know I, presonally, wouldn't care.

A 68K binary, when sent via email, takes more than a minute to download
over a 9,600bps modem, which could be very annoying to many people on this
list, so I don't think it should be sent here. Like I said, if someone
wants to set up another list for this purpose, they'd be welcome.
 
> >Uhh, the date is stored with the file: type "DIR DIGGER.EXE" to see it.
> 
> And we ALL know how useful MS-DOS filedates are.

True, hence the new feature.

> >Why on earth would you want it at a constant location within the file,
> >where no-one can see it? That would also mess up the PKLITE compression.
> 
> No, because if you add it after the PKLITE it works (if I remember
> correctly); also, it would make detection of previous Digger versions
> possible. Besides, it's just a suggestion, something I used to pull off
> when writing the software for my parents' store.  (I'm in the process of
> writing a new version, in C this time :))

Thing is, you'd have to write two completely new programs: one to stick it
on the end of the file at compile time, and another to read it, should you
want to. I think the method I chose is simpler on both counts.

> >However, from this version onwards (providing that I remember to update
> >it) the full version string (including compilist and platform) can be
> >gleaned by typing "DIGGER /?".
> 
> ... and the command line parameters too, I hope.

As always.

Andrew


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From holograph@usa.net Tue Feb  2 16:57:11 1999
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:29:58 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   01  1999 17:27
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update


>A 68K binary, when sent via email, takes more than a minute to download
>over a 9,600bps modem, which could be very annoying to many people on this
>list, so I don't think it should be sent here. Like I said, if someone
>wants to set up another list for this purpose, they'd be welcome.


Who has a 9600bps modem these days?!  Anyway, I don't know how, so...

>> No, because if you add it after the PKLITE it works (if I remember
>> correctly); also, it would make detection of previous Digger versions
>> possible. Besides, it's just a suggestion, something I used to pull off
>> when writing the software for my parents' store.  (I'm in the process of
>> writing a new version, in C this time :))
>
>Thing is, you'd have to write two completely new programs: one to stick it
>on the end of the file at compile time, and another to read it, should you
>want to. I think the method I chose is simpler on both counts.


Yeah, whatever :)



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Tue Feb  2 17:00:22 1999
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:58:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

> Who has a 9600bps modem these days?!  Anyway, I don't know how, so...

More people than you'd think. Most phone lines are only guaranteed to work
up to 9,600bps, so many people with fast modems still have slow
connections, especially if they live in rural areas.

Andrew


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From holograph@usa.net Tue Feb  2 17:08:08 1999
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:06:10 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   02  1999 18:58
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger Update


>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>Hi Tomer,
>
>> Who has a 9600bps modem these days?!  Anyway, I don't know how, so...
>
>More people than you'd think. Most phone lines are only guaranteed to work
>up to 9,600bps, so many people with fast modems still have slow
>connections, especially if they live in rural areas.


Maybe Israel isn't that much of a shithole, then. Bezeq (the local phone
company) support 56k. Well, Israel is smaller than most of the
afformentioned
"rural areas", only 500 km in length, so that's not much of a problem.  And
the
phone grid is relatively new, I think 30 years old or so.



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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: "<Digger chat mailing list" <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:37:13 +0100
Subject: [digger] Digger update

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

The latest version of Digger is now available from
"http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn". This address is only temporary, due
to work going on at www.oldskool.org which hosts www.digger.org (which is
usually the most up to date version of the Digger site). I just got bored of
waiting for Jim to complete the updates.

The new version finally adds music to the SoundBlaster support. Also some
timing problems have been sorted out. Please would anyone who had timing
problems and is currently using the /V switch try the latest version without
the /V switch and let me know if the problem hasn't been solved.

Finally, I am pleased to announce that a Windows 95/DirectX 6 version of
Digger is now available at the above address, thanks to Tim Draper. See the
website for more information.

Keep digging,

Andrew


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:47:47 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Trying to download the Win95 version from Tom Draper brings up an error
message.
Could you check this out please?
Avi


At 21:37 28/03/99 +0100, you wrote:
>From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>The latest version of Digger is now available from
>"http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn". This address is only temporary, due
>to work going on at www.oldskool.org which hosts www.digger.org (which is
>usually the most up to date version of the Digger site). I just got bored of
>waiting for Jim to complete the updates.
>
>The new version finally adds music to the SoundBlaster support. Also some
>timing problems have been sorted out. Please would anyone who had timing
>problems and is currently using the /V switch try the latest version without
>the /V switch and let me know if the problem hasn't been solved.
>
>Finally, I am pleased to announce that a Windows 95/DirectX 6 version of
>Digger is now available at the above address, thanks to Tim Draper. See the
>website for more information.
>
>Keep digging,
>
>Andrew
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://www.onelist.com
>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories
> 


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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:46:05 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Avi,

>Trying to download the Win95 version from Tom Draper brings up an error
>message.


Whoops, so it does. I'd done everything except actually uploading the new
files! Try it now.

Andrew


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:56:06 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Great!
Thanks!
Avi


At 22:46 28/03/99 +0100, you wrote:
>From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>Hi Avi,
>
>>Trying to download the Win95 version from Tom Draper brings up an error
>>message.

>Whoops, so it does. I'd done everything except actually uploading the new
>files! Try it now.
>Andrew
>> 


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From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:35:54 +0200
Subject: [digger] Windows-Version of Digger

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

Hello Andrew,

nice to hear from you again.
I didn't find the Windows 95/DirectX -Version of Digger. Can someone help me?

Have a nice Easter!
			Diethelm


At 21:37 28.03.1999 +0100, you wrote:
>The latest version of Digger is now available from
>"http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn". This address is only temporary, due
>to work going on at www.oldskool.org which hosts www.digger.org (which is
>usually the most up to date version of the Digger site). I just got bored of
>waiting for Jim to complete the updates.
>
>The new version finally adds music to the SoundBlaster support. Also some
>timing problems have been sorted out. Please would anyone who had timing
>problems and is currently using the /V switch try the latest version without
>the /V switch and let me know if the problem hasn't been solved.
>
>Finally, I am pleased to announce that a Windows 95/DirectX 6 version of
>Digger is now available at the above address, thanks to Tim Draper. See the
>website for more information.


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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:54:25 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Windows-Version of Digger

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Diethelm,

>nice to hear from you again.
>I didn't find the Windows 95/DirectX -Version of Digger. Can someone help
me?

Are you sure you didn't go to www.digger.org instead of
http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn ? The exact address of windig.zip is
http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn/windig.zip

Andrew


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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: "<Digger chat mailing list" <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:16:35 +0100
Subject: [digger] Digger Update

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

The latest version of Digger is now available at www.digger.org. The latest
version fixes some minor bugs in the previous version. There is also an
update to the Windows version which fixes some bugs and makes it possible to
play the game even if you don't have DirectX.

Keep Digging,

Andrew


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:28:32 +0300
Subject: [digger] Digger update (resend for the new members)

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>

The latest version of Digger is now available from
"http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn". This address is only temporary, due
to work going on at www.oldskool.org which hosts www.digger.org (which is
usually the most up to date version of the Digger site). I just got bored of
waiting for Jim to complete the updates.

The new version finally adds music to the SoundBlaster support. Also some
timing problems have been sorted out. Please would anyone who had timing
problems and is currently using the /V switch try the latest version without
the /V switch and let me know if the problem hasn't been solved.

Finally, I am pleased to announce that a Windows 95/DirectX 6 version of
Digger is now available at the above address, thanks to Tim Draper. See the
website for more information.

Keep digging,

Andrew



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Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories
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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:21:15 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update (resend for the new members)

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

>Subject: [digger] Digger update (resend for the new members)

New members? Does this mean we finally get some traffic on this list???

Andrew


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 10:55:34 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update (resend for the new members)

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Yup!
I posted on New-list and we have 16 new members.
Hopefully, it will continue to grow.
Avi


At 21:21 03/04/99 +0100, you wrote:
>From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>>Subject: [digger] Digger update (resend for the new members)
>New members? Does this mean we finally get some traffic on this list???
>Andrew
 


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From: Karen Richey <richey@bright.net>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:10:32 -0500
Subject: [digger] Clueless

From: Karen Richey <richey@bright.net>

I just subscribed to the list and downloaded the game.  I haven't installed
it yet because I have not yet virus checked it.  

I am pretty much clueless about digger.  I subscribe to the New List and
saw the announcement about digger.  I was curious so I thought I'd try it.

Are there many members to this list?  Are you all die-hard digger fans?  I
am downloading DirectX.  Is WinDig the best way to go with a Win95 OS?

----------------------------------------
Karen Richey
richey@bright.net
http://www.bright.net/~richey
literacy@bright.net
http://www.bright.net/~literacy

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usually the most up to date version of the Digger site)






From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 11:38:42 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Hi Karen and welcome!
Yes, you'll find a number of us Digger die-hard fans here.
Ask your questions and have fun.
Avi


At 16:10 03/04/99 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Karen Richey <richey@bright.net>
>
>I just subscribed to the list and downloaded the game.  I haven't installed
>it yet because I have not yet virus checked it.  
>
>I am pretty much clueless about digger.  I subscribe to the New List and
>saw the announcement about digger.  I was curious so I thought I'd try it.
>
>Are there many members to this list?  Are you all die-hard digger fans?  I
>am downloading DirectX.  Is WinDig the best way to go with a Win95 OS?
>
>----------------------------------------
>Karen Richey
>richey@bright.net
>http://www.bright.net/~richey
>literacy@bright.net
>http://www.bright.net/~literacy
>
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>http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn This address is only temporary, due
>to work going on at www.oldskool.org which hosts www.digger.org (which is
>usually the most up to date version of the Digger site)
> 


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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:56:43 +0200
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update (resend for the new members)

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:  03  1999 22:48
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update (resend for the new members)


>From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>>Subject: [digger] Digger update (resend for the new members)
>
>New members? Does this mean we finally get some traffic on this list???


Getting optimistic, Andrew? :)



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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:59:06 +0200
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Richey <richey@bright.net>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:  03  1999 23:23
Subject: [digger] Clueless


>From: Karen Richey <richey@bright.net>
>
>I just subscribed to the list and downloaded the game.  I haven't installed
>it yet because I have not yet virus checked it.


It's not infected (according to several antiviruses), but you should check
anyway (hey, no such thing as overcautious, eh?)

>I am pretty much clueless about digger.  I subscribe to the New List and
>saw the announcement about digger.  I was curious so I thought I'd try it.


Hey, welcome to the club :)

>Are there many members to this list?  Are you all die-hard digger fans?  I
>am downloading DirectX.  Is WinDig the best way to go with a Win95 OS?


Hmm, die-hard? I guess... but as for Win95, I think WinDig is still too
immature; go for the DOS version, it works fine.



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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:13:01 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

>>New members? Does this mean we finally get some traffic on this list???
>
>Getting optimistic, Andrew? :)

Well, you know I always was the optimistic one, Tomer.

>>Are there many members to this list?

Good question, Karen. How many are there, Avi?

>>Are you all die-hard digger fans?
>
>Hmm, die-hard? I guess...

I don't think I'm that much of a die-hard fan, and I'm the one who started
it all off in the first place! I just played around with it for fun, and it
all got a bit out of hand...

>>I am downloading DirectX.  Is WinDig the best way to go with a Win95 OS?
>
>as for Win95, I think WinDig is still too immature; go for the DOS version,
it works fine.

I think WinDig is easier to use than the DOS version. Okay, so it is very
new but it worked really well on my computer, even though I don't have
DirectX. Besides, we need people to test it so we can find and iron out all
the bugs. And if you've already gone to all the trouble of downloading
DirectX, WinDig is only a hundredth of the size so you might as well try it
out anyway!

Andrew


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 06:05:37 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


We were holding firm at 29 for a long while and as of yesterday, we are now
47 people.
How about starting up the competition again and let's really test the new
Digger together.
Maybe have a "find the bug" contest.

Avi

At 13:13 04/04/99 +0100, you wrote:
<SNIP>
>Good question, Karen. How many are there, Avi?
>
<SNIP>
>Andrew
 


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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:06:12 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Avi,

>We were holding firm at 29 for a long while and as of yesterday, we are now
>47 people.

Wow, that's quite a crowd! Welcome, one and all.

>How about starting up the competition again and let's really test the new
>Digger together.

Starting up what competition again? The Hall of fame is ongoing as ever.

I was thinking about adding a two-player-simultaneous hall of fame (i.e. top
5 teams) but I'm not sure if the rules for 2P/S mode have been finalised
yet. Someone proposed a minor change the other day: that the scoring rule
for killing a monster with a bag of gold should revert to the original rule
(i.e. the score shouldn't be split between the two players) once one of the
Diggers has lost all his/her lives and their tombstone has disappeared. I'm
working on this, but it shouldn't affect most recorded games when I do
change it. Some changes to the rules, however, might stop recorded games
from playing back properly, so I'd like to finalise them now. Does anyone
want to propose a change to the 2P/S rules? Who thinks I should stick with
the rules as they are?

>Maybe have a "find the bug" contest.

Now there's a good idea... A prize of a personalised copy of Digger to
anyone on this list who finds a bug! (DOS Digger only - Tim Draper would
have to set up a similar competition for Windig...)

Andrew


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From: "Michael Buzo" <michaelbuzo@hotmail.com>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 03:35:52 PDT
Subject: [digger] Please Remove me

From: "Michael Buzo" <michaelbuzo@hotmail.com>

How can i get myself off this mailing list?
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 00:39:44 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: Please Remove me

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Done.


At 03:35 05/04/99 -0700, you wrote:
>From: "Michael Buzo" <michaelbuzo@hotmail.com>
>
>How can i get myself off this mailing list?
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms?
>http://www.onelist.com
>Sign up for a new email list today
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn This address is only temporary, due
>to work going on at www.oldskool.org which hosts www.digger.org (which is
>usually the most up to date version of the Digger site)
> 


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From: Joel <joel@joelryan.com>
To: "digger@onelist.com" <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 6:23:0 -0700
Subject: [digger] Re: Win Dig

From: Joel <joel@joelryan.com>

Where do I get WinDig?

Joel

>I think WinDig is easier to use than the DOS version. Okay, so it is very
>new but it worked really well on my computer, even though I don't have
>DirectX. Besides, we need people to test it so we can find and iron out all
>the bugs. And if you've already gone to all the trouble of downloading
>DirectX, WinDig is only a hundredth of the size so you might as well try it
>out anyway!
>
>Andrew



---------[ Joel Ryan Software ]---------

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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:31:14 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Win Dig

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Joel,

>Where do I get WinDig?

http://www.digger.org


I'm not sure why this:

>http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn This address is only temporary, due
>to work going on at www.oldskool.org which hosts www.digger.org (which is
>usually the most up to date version of the Digger site)

keeps appearing at the bottom of messages, but it's out of date. Avi, if you
put it there could you you please remove it?

Andrew


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:00:32 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: Win Dig

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Sure.


At 14:31 05/04/99 +0100, you wrote:
>From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>Hi Joel,
>
>>Where do I get WinDig?
>
>http://www.digger.org
>
>
>I'm not sure why this:
>
>>http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn This address is only temporary, due
>>to work going on at www.oldskool.org which hosts www.digger.org (which is
>>usually the most up to date version of the Digger site)
>
>keeps appearing at the bottom of messages, but it's out of date. Avi, if you
>put it there could you you please remove it?
>
>Andrew
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>Gamesville - World's Biggest Game Show Site!
>          http://www.onelist.com/ad/0
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn This address is only temporary, due
>to work going on at www.oldskool.org which hosts www.digger.org (which is
>usually the most up to date version of the Digger site)
> 


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:04:14 +0300
Subject: [digger] test - delete

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


test  


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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:08:23 +0200
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   04  1999 14:53
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless


>>Getting optimistic, Andrew? :)
>
>Well, you know I always was the optimistic one, Tomer.


As opposed to my Russian origin.

>>Hmm, die-hard? I guess...
>
>I don't think I'm that much of a die-hard fan, and I'm the one who started
>it all off in the first place! I just played around with it for fun, and it
>all got a bit out of hand...


As bit out of hand as Microsoft after the release of Windows 3.11. :)
Acutally, it's so out of hand that people who don't even know what a
"registry" is happen to play Digger: Revised.

>>as for Win95, I think WinDig is still too immature; go for the DOS
version,
>it works fine.
>
>I think WinDig is easier to use than the DOS version. Okay, so it is very
>new but it worked really well on my computer, even though I don't have
>DirectX. Besides, we need people to test it so we can find and iron out all
>the bugs. And if you've already gone to all the trouble of downloading
>DirectX, WinDig is only a hundredth of the size so you might as well try it
>out anyway!


Yeah, but it has bugs. (Duuh)



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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:56:26 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

>>Well, you know I always was the optimistic one, Tomer.
>
>As opposed to my Russian origin.

I never knew you had a Russian origin.

>>>Hmm, die-hard? I guess...
>>
>>I don't think I'm that much of a die-hard fan, and I'm the one who started
>>it all off in the first place! I just played around with it for fun, and
it
>>all got a bit out of hand...
>
>As bit out of hand as Microsoft after the release of Windows 3.11. :)
>Acutally, it's so out of hand that people who don't even know what a
>"registry" is happen to play Digger: Revised.

I'm not sure why you think that this is a symptom of it being out of hand...
In fact, I think some of the first people to play Digger Remastered (way
back when it was just one of the many little PD releases on my homepage)
didn't know what a registry was (and this was less than a year ago). No, I'm
talking about the Digger website, www.digger.org, the mailing lists, all the
efforts from various people to port it to different platforms (I even got an
email today from someone wanting to port it to a graphical calculator!) Most
of all I'm talking about the huge number of people who've emailed to thank
me about the game - I had no idea it would be so popular!

>>I think WinDig is easier to use than the DOS version. Okay, so it is very
>>new but it worked really well on my computer, even though I don't have
>>DirectX. Besides, we need people to test it so we can find and iron out
all
>>the bugs. And if you've already gone to all the trouble of downloading
>>DirectX, WinDig is only a hundredth of the size so you might as well try
it
>>out anyway!
>
>Yeah, but it has bugs. (Duuh)

Well, what software doesn't? (Okay, apart from DOS Digger... :-) There are a
few bugs in WinDig documented on the website, but (at least on my machine)
they've never caused any trouble. If you've found some other, more serious
bugs, please tell me (or Tim Draper, if you haven't already). If you only
want to use the options that are on the menus in WinDig, they're much easier
than the DOS command line (even for a hardened DOS nut like myself). If you
want to redefine the keys, or record and playback games, you still have to
use DOS Digger for now.

Andrew


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From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:28:42 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Windows-Version of Digger

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

At 16:54 01.04.1999 +0100, you wrote:
>http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn/windig.zip

Hi Andrew and all Digger-Fans,

I've just found the windig.zip (didn't know that this is the right name).
The Program comes up with the MessageBox: DirectDraw: QueryInterface
FAILED. DirectX 6 required.
What software or what hardware do I need?

Bye,
  Diethelm

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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:34:50 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: Windows-Version of Digger

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Hi,
Go to the URL;


http://www.microsoft.com/directx/download.asp

and download from there.
Avi


At 08:28 06/04/99 +0100, you wrote:
>From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
>
>At 16:54 01.04.1999 +0100, you wrote:
>>http://members.xoom.com/DiggerReborn/windig.zip
>
>Hi Andrew and all Digger-Fans,
>
>I've just found the windig.zip (didn't know that this is the right name).
>The Program comes up with the MessageBox: DirectDraw: QueryInterface
>FAILED. DirectX 6 required.
>What software or what hardware do I need?
>Bye,
>	Diethelm
 


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From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:39:29 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Windows-Version of Digger

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

At 10:34 06.04.1999 +0300, you wrote:
>From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
>Go to the URL;
>http://www.microsoft.com/directx/download.asp

Hi Avi,

I just found it by myself but they say that I have to run a Service Pack 4
on my WinNT-System with about 34 MB (Oops!)

Thank You and bye,
      Diethelm

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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:30:22 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Windows-Version of Digger

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Diethelm,

>I just found it by myself but they say that I have to run a Service Pack 4
>on my WinNT-System with about 34 MB (Oops!)

Ah, if you have Windows NT you won't be able to use DirectX 6 - bad luck.
However, there is good news. If you download the latest version of WinDig
from http://www.digger.org it should work without DirectX.

Andrew


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From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:04:46 +0200
Subject: [digger] Re: Windows-Version of Digger

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

Hi All,

I just tried windig.exe under Windows 95 (after downloading it again). Now
I get the MessageBox "dsound.dll missing". Where can I get dsound.dll ?

It seems that it still needs DirectX. OK, I will download it from Microsoft!

Bye,
  Diethelm

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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:30:36 +0200
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   05  1999 23:01
Subject: [digger] Re: Clueless


>>As opposed to my Russian origin.
>
>I never knew you had a Russian origin.


About 1/6 of the Israeli population is of Russian origin. :) Besides,
I have roots in Romania, Poland, and probably Hungary as well.

>I'm not sure why you think that this is a symptom of it being out of
hand...
>In fact, I think some of the first people to play Digger Remastered (way
>back when it was just one of the many little PD releases on my homepage)
>didn't know what a registry was (and this was less than a year ago). No,
I'm
>talking about the Digger website, www.digger.org, the mailing lists, all
the
>efforts from various people to port it to different platforms (I even got
an
>email today from someone wanting to port it to a graphical calculator!)
Most
>of all I'm talking about the huge number of people who've emailed to thank
>me about the game - I had no idea it would be so popular!


Now you do. :)  Hmm, I still have to write that goddamn setup :)

>>Yeah, but it has bugs. (Duuh)
>
>Well, what software doesn't? (Okay, apart from DOS Digger... :-) There are
a
>few bugs in WinDig documented on the website, but (at least on my machine)
>they've never caused any trouble. If you've found some other, more serious
>bugs, please tell me (or Tim Draper, if you haven't already). If you only
>want to use the options that are on the menus in WinDig, they're much
easier
>than the DOS command line (even for a hardened DOS nut like myself). If you
>want to redefine the keys, or record and playback games, you still have to
>use DOS Digger for now.


Ja, well, it has minor bugs but they don't render it unplayable. Still, I
don't think
DirectX has to be a "must", it's just as easy to use GDI... and why the
isn't there
CGA graphics in the Windows version? I don't really like the EGA graphics
(no
offense, I'm just... you know, a die-hard abandonware patron).



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From: Joel <joel@joelryan.com>
To: "digger@onelist.com" <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 6:17:37 -0700
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 42

From: Joel <joel@joelryan.com>

Another way to get around these problems is to simply DISABLE your sound card
in device 
manager.  You can re-enable it when your done playing (you will have to reboot).

Of course, you won't get any sound!

Joel

>Message: 11
>   Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:04:46 +0200
>   From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
>Subject: Re: Windows-Version of Digger
>
>Hi All,
>
>I just tried windig.exe under Windows 95 (after downloading it again). Now
>I get the MessageBox "dsound.dll missing". Where can I get dsound.dll ?
>
>It seems that it still needs DirectX. OK, I will download it from Microsoft!
>
>Bye,
> Diethelm



---------[ Joel Ryan Software ]---------

      ButtonWiz Makes Web Buttons
    DriveAwake Stops Drive Spin-Down

        http://www.joelryan.com
        
        
                               Joel Ryan
                       joel@joelryan.com
                       
----------------------------------------



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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:35:58 +0200
Subject: [digger] Re: Windows-Version of Digger

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


>I've just found the windig.zip (didn't know that this is the right name).
>The Program comes up with the MessageBox: DirectDraw: QueryInterface
>FAILED. DirectX 6 required.
>What software or what hardware do I need?


Windows 95/98/NT and DirectX 6/6.1. I think you can
download DirectX at the following URL:

www.microsoft.com/directx

I might be wrong though.



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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:47:15 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Windows-Version of Digger

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

>I just tried windig.exe under Windows 95 (after downloading it again). Now
>I get the MessageBox "dsound.dll missing". Where can I get dsound.dll ?
>
>It seems that it still needs DirectX. OK, I will download it from
Microsoft!


I think I read somewhere that DirectX 6 doesn't work with Windows NT, only
DirectX 3, and that DirectX 6 wouldn't be supported until Windows 2000.
Maybe that service pack you mentioned will allow DirectX 6 to run with NT
but I doubt it unless it specifically says so. I've just thought of
something: is that service pack the one that has DirectX 3 in it? I think
that to get the current version of WinDig working in NT you'd have to do
this: install DirectX 3 and disable your soundcard (as Joel said - I just
discovered today that running WinDig with a version of DirectX less than 6
and a sound card causes it not to work). Sorry if that seems a bit of a lame
solution, but Windows NT really wasn't designed for games!


>Ja, well, it has minor bugs but they don't render it unplayable. Still, I
don't think
>DirectX has to be a "must", it's just as easy to use GDI...

The latest version does make use of GDI if you don't have DirectX 6 -
unfortunately it seems that it still needs a version of DirectX just to
start up (otherwise it complains about missing DLLs as Diethelm said). I
shall take this up with Tim Draper, WinDig's author.

>and why the isn't there CGA graphics in the Windows version?

Because Tim hasn't got around to implementing them yet! I think that it's
taking a while because he wants to make the CGA graphics scalable so that
you can play at normal (i.e. one quarter of a 640x480 screen) or double (the
same size as it is at the moment) size.

>I don't really like the EGA graphics (no offense, I'm just... you know, a
die-hard abandonware
>patron).

Okay, no offence taken.

Andrew


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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:32:16 +0100
Subject: [digger] WinDig: latest news

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

I'm afraid WinDig won't work at all unless you have DirectX 5 or better,
which means it won't work on Windows NT machines. Sorry.

The schedule for things to be done with WinDig is:
>1.  get sound working without the use of DirectSound  (this should work
>with both a Win32 non-DirectX version and a Win16 version is all goes well)
>(If I have too much trouble with this, this will be postponed.)
>2. changes to the VGA graphics to a more appropriate format ('mkg.c',
>vgaputim(), etc. )  (This should improve the speed of the graphics a lot
>when DirectX 6 is not installed.)
>3. add CGA graphics (reusing the VGA routines, hopefully)
>4. build Win32 non-DirectX, and Win16 versions
>5. try to build a Win32 version that will run on both DirectX and
>non-DirectX systems
>6. Adding more features: keyboard redefinition, dialog boxes for
>saving/playing recorded games, loading different sets of levels, etc.
>Also, finding/fixing bugs in Win16 version, and more things that I can't
>think of right now.

Andrew


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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: "<Digger chat mailing list" <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:19:31 +0100
Subject: [digger] Digger update

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

The latest version of Digger for Windows, available from
http://www.digger.org, fixes some minor bugs in the previous version. In
particular, this version should work (including the sound) with any version
of DirectX, thus finally allowing Windows NT users to play WinDig and to
hear the sound effects if they have DirectX (DirectX 4 and later do not work
with Windows NT).

Keep Digging,

Andrew


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From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:05:20 +0200
Subject: [digger] Problems with Mailserver

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

Hi,

we had Problems with our mailserver and I could not get the mails of the
last 24 hours. Will I be deleted from the mailing list, when the mail is
throwd back?

Diethelm

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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: "<Digger chat mailing list" <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:12:36 +0100
Subject: [digger] Digger update

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

The latest version of Digger, available at http://www.digger.org makes
possible the recording and playback of really huge DRF files such as Dror
Bohrer's new record score. There is also yet another new version of WinDig
which does not require DirectX at all.

Keep Digging,

Andrew


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From: "Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tomjr@sfo.com>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:48:54 -0700
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update

From: "Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tomjr@sfo.com>


Ok, I downloaded the 'latest' windig last night, and it turned out to be
the exact same version I ghot the 2nd. at least according to the 'last
modified' date and time wjhen I extracted it using winzip.

is *this* new version really a new version? I figure what happened
yesterday was that someone forgot to upload the updated version,. :-)

 
At 04:12 PM 4/8/99 +0100, you wrote:
>From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>The latest version of Digger, available at http://www.digger.org makes
>possible the recording and playback of really huge DRF files such as Dror
>Bohrer's new record score. There is also yet another new version of WinDig
>which does not require DirectX at all.
>
>Keep Digging,
>
>Andrew
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://www.ONElist.com
>Our scaleable system is the most reliable free e-mail service on the
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>
>

Thank You For Your Time,

Thomas O Magann Jr
http://www.sfo.com/~tomjr/
<tomjr@sfo.com>
ICQ# 2307431


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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:49:44 +0100
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

>Ok, I downloaded the 'latest' windig last night, and it turned out to be
>the exact same version I ghot the 2nd. at least according to the 'last
>modified' date and time wjhen I extracted it using winzip.
>
>is *this* new version really a new version? I figure what happened
>yesterday was that someone forgot to upload the updated version,. :-)

Whoops, now you mention it the version in the archive I uploaded when I sent
that update wasn't the latest version - I'm not sure why that happened but
I've fixed it now so try again. If it still hasn't changed then there could
be an out-of-date copy in a cache somewhere along the route. You can bypass
caching by adding a question mark at the end of the URL when you download,
e.g. by entering the URL "http://www.digger.org/windig.zip?" into your
browser.

Andrew


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:37:23 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: Problems with Mailserver

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


So far, no problem.
You are still subscribed.
Avi


At 10:05 08/04/99 +0200, you wrote:
>From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
>
>Hi,
>
>we had Problems with our mailserver and I could not get the mails of the
>last 24 hours. Will I be deleted from the mailing list, when the mail is
>throwd back?
>
>Diethelm
 


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From: "Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tomjr@sfo.com>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:44:44 -0700
Subject: [digger] Re: Digger update

From: "Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tomjr@sfo.com>


>Whoops, now you mention it the version in the archive I uploaded when I sent
>that update wasn't the latest version - I'm not sure why that happened but
>I've fixed it now so try again. 

Well, it's definately newer. The exe is a few k smaller too, and comes with
a text file

Thanks.

Thank You For Your Time,

Thomas O Magann Jr
http://www.sfo.com/~tomjr/
<tomjr@sfo.com>
ICQ# 2307431


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  




From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 08:51:59 +0300
Subject: [digger] scores

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Okay, so I'm interested.
What kind of scores are you people getting this week and in which modes of
the game?
Avi the curious.


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From christop@hawaii.edu Fri Apr 23 12:53:17 1999
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:56:32 -1000
From: "Christopher K. Scott" <christop@hawaii.edu>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From:	"Christopher K. Scott" <christop@hawaii.edu>

how do I get a copy of the game?

chrisco

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From benzev@kinneret.co.il Fri Apr 23 12:53:37 1999
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:03:41 +0300
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Try the URL;


http://www.digger.com

You can download either the DOS or Windows version.
Avi


At 02:56 23/04/99 -1000, you wrote:
>From:	"Christopher K. Scott" <christop@hawaii.edu>
>how do I get a copy of the game?
>chrisco




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From dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fri Apr 23 12:53:40 1999
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:24:21 +0200
From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

At 07:03 23.04.1999 +0300, you wrote:
>From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
>
>
>Try the URL;
>
>
>http://www.digger.com
>
>You can download either the DOS or Windows version.
>Avi
>
Do you mean http://www.digger.com or http://www.digger.org ?

Diethelm

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From benzev@kinneret.co.il Fri Apr 23 12:53:46 1999
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:04:19 +0300
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Corrected.
Thanks,
Avi


At 09:24 23/04/99 +0200, you wrote:
>From: Diethelm Kabus <dak@zn.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
>
>At 07:03 23.04.1999 +0300, you wrote:
>>From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
>>
>>
>>Try the URL;
>>
>>
>>http://www.digger.com
>>
>>You can download either the DOS or Windows version.
>>Avi
>>
>Do you mean http://www.digger.com or http://www.digger.org ?
>
>Diethelm
>
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> 


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From holograph@usa.net Fri Apr 23 12:53:50 1999
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:24:19 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher K. Scott <christop@hawaii.edu>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   22  1999 22:46
Subject: [digger] Re: Welcome to digger@onelist.com


>From: "Christopher K. Scott" <christop@hawaii.edu>
>
>how do I get a copy of the game?


Easy enough. Go to www.digger.org and you'll have a download
option right below the picture in the main page.



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From psenn@twave.net Sat Apr 24 12:28:07 1999
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:17:32 -0400
From: psenn@twave.net
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 46

From: psenn@twave.net

Digger is a BIG HIT with my 3rd grader and 5th grader!!!

What was it written in?

I'm a fairly good VB programmer....Is there a library that you used?


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From holograph@usa.net Sat Apr 24 12:28:22 1999
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:19:45 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 46

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: psenn@twave.net <psenn@twave.net>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   23  1999 23:20
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 46


>From: psenn@twave.net
>
>Digger is a BIG HIT with my 3rd grader and 5th grader!!!
>
>What was it written in?
>
>I'm a fairly good VB programmer....Is there a library that you used?


Well, Digger is written by Andrew Jenner, so I can only answer according
to what I know.

Digger is generally written in C, Turbo C 2.01 (if I'm not mistaken) to be
exact. Most of the time-critical code and some code portions from the
original Digger are in assembler and are assembled in Turbo Assembler
(can't remember the version number).
No libraries were used.

As for the windows version, you should ask its author. Look for his e-mail
address in www.digger.org.



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Sat Apr 24 20:20:24 1999
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:09:17 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 46

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

> Digger is generally written in C, Turbo C 2.01 (if I'm not mistaken) 

You are. I've been using Borland C++ 4.52 to compile the C parts for some
time now. I am still using the C libraries from Turbo C 2.01, though,
because the Borland C++ 4.52 libraries are too big. Any compiler and any 
sufficiently small C library should do, though.

> Most of the time-critical code and some code portions from the
> original Digger are in assembler and are assembled in Turbo Assembler

Actually I'm using A86 for those parts.

The Windows version was, I believe, compiled with Microsoft Visual C++,
but I'm not sure which version. I've also compiled it with Borland C++
4.52 but there were minor run-time differences (not sure if there still
are). Although you do not need DirectX to run WinDig, you might very well
need the DirectX SDK to compile it (or at the very least, some header
files from the SDK).

Andrew


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From holograph@usa.net Mon Apr 26 10:08:54 1999
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:01:34 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 46

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:  24  1999 21:09
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 46


>From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>> Digger is generally written in C, Turbo C 2.01 (if I'm not mistaken)
>
>You are. I've been using Borland C++ 4.52 to compile the C parts for some
>time now. I am still using the C libraries from Turbo C 2.01, though,
>because the Borland C++ 4.52 libraries are too big. Any compiler and any
>sufficiently small C library should do, though.


Since when? Doesn't matter, really. Did you get a new computer, or are
you still working under Windows 3.11?

>> Most of the time-critical code and some code portions from the
>> original Digger are in assembler and are assembled in Turbo Assembler
>
>Actually I'm using A86 for those parts.


Yeah, my mistake, I was slightly adrift :)

>The Windows version was, I believe, compiled with Microsoft Visual C++,
>but I'm not sure which version. I've also compiled it with Borland C++
>4.52 but there were minor run-time differences (not sure if there still
>are). Although you do not need DirectX to run WinDig, you might very well
>need the DirectX SDK to compile it (or at the very least, some header
>files from the SDK).


'k.

Tomer



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Mon Apr 26 10:12:32 1999
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:11:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 46

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

> >You are. I've been using Borland C++ 4.52 to compile the C parts for some
> >time now. 
> 
> Since when? 

Oh, ages ago.

> Doesn't matter, really. Did you get a new computer, or are
> you still working under Windows 3.11?

I'm still working under DOS! (Using the command line tools). I only use
Windows when I really have to...

Andrew


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From holograph@usa.net Mon Apr 26 10:16:58 1999
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:17:52 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@usa.net>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 46

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@usa.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   26  1999 11:12
Subject: [digger] Re: Digest Number 46


Hehe, if I had known you were online I'd turn on ICQ. :)


>> >You are. I've been using Borland C++ 4.52 to compile the C parts for
some
>> >time now.
>>
>> Since when?
>
>Oh, ages ago.


Really? Well, I rather use BC 3.1 really, it's much more comfortable (not to
mention stable) and has a better IDE.

>> Doesn't matter, really. Did you get a new computer, or are
>> you still working under Windows 3.11?
>
>I'm still working under DOS! (Using the command line tools). I only use
>Windows when I really have to...


Smart man :)



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Thu May  6 23:34:32 1999
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 17:03:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: Undisclosed recipients:  ;
Subject: [digger] Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

The latest version of Digger, available from http://www.digger.org is just
a minor bug fix version. A number of minor bugs have cropped up over the
past few weeks, none of them serious enough on their own to warrant a new
version. However, I'm going to be really busy with exams for the next
month or so, so I thought I'd release this now. (I'll try to still be
around once in a while to answer really important questions and fix really
serious bugs).

The other piece of news is the new Protected Mode Digger, created by David
Down. This has a few features that DOS Digger doesn't, but also a few
bugs. Check out the website for more details if you're interested.

Keep Digging,

Andrew


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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Mon May 24 14:48:55 1999
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:58:52 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: Undisclosed recipients:  ;
Subject: [digger] Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

The source code for Digger will from now on be available at the Digger
website, "http://www.digger.org".

This message has been sent to the Digger Update mailing list and to those
people who have in the past requested the source code for Digger.

Keep Digging,

Andrew


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From holograph@gamestats.com Mon May 24 19:52:10 1999
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:43:45 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@gamestats.com>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: Undisclosed recipients: ; <Undisclosed recipients: ;>
Date:   24  1999 15:12
Subject: [digger] Digger Update


>This message has been sent to the Digger Update mailing list and to those
>people who have in the past requested the source code for Digger.


Hey Andrew, would you like to GPL Digger?



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Mon May 24 20:27:47 1999
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:52:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

> Hey Andrew, would you like to GPL Digger?

There's nothing I'd like more. However, it's not that simple. I have to
face the possibility that Windmill Software may one day reappear and claim
the rights to the thing. If I were to just put all the relevant GPL bits
and pieces in the source code and distributions, it would be not be valid,
since I don't own the copyright to Digger.

Andrew


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From holograph@gamestats.com Tue May 25 12:04:23 1999
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:04:42 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@gamestats.com>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   24  1999 20:52
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update


>> Hey Andrew, would you like to GPL Digger?
>
>There's nothing I'd like more. However, it's not that simple. I have to
>face the possibility that Windmill Software may one day reappear and claim
>the rights to the thing. If I were to just put all the relevant GPL bits
>and pieces in the source code and distributions, it would be not be valid,
>since I don't own the copyright to Digger.


Good point. Damn, I hate legal crap. Problem is, not only do you
not own the rights to Digger, but portions of the source code are
still original Windmill code, which also valids the copyright.

"Whaddya call two thousand lawyers on the bottom of the sea?
 A good start!"



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Wed May 26 10:17:09 1999
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:48:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

>Good point. Damn, I hate legal crap. Problem is, not only do you
>not own the rights to Digger, but portions of the source code are
>still original Windmill code, which also valids the copyright.
>
>"Whaddya call two thousand lawyers on the bottom of the sea?
> A good start!"

Wow, will you look at that - all the lawyers who were on the list just
unsubscribed! ;-)

Like it or not, some legal stuff is necessary to protect us from the
likes of Constantine Klyatskin (see http://www.digger.org/links.html)
who, given the chance, would charge us for the air we breathe...

What I do object to, though, is having to wade through mountains of
legal jargon just to install a piece of software (anyone who's ever
installed even the smallest patch from Microsoft will know what I'm
talking about). I wish MS would standardise their license - I don't
have to read the GPL every time I install a piece of GPLed software...

And other thing - what is that "you may not disassemble/reverse
engineer/decompile this software" rubbish about? If it's on my hard
disk, I'll do what I please with it! (And I would, as well, if it
weren't too long and complicated to disassemble...) As long as I don't
distribute Microsoft code I can't see how that is enforcable at all.

Okay, rant over...

Andrew


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From holograph@gamestats.com Wed May 26 11:42:35 1999
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:23:16 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@gamestats.com>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   26  1999 10:48
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update


>>"Whaddya call two thousand lawyers on the bottom of the sea?
>> A good start!"
>
>Wow, will you look at that - all the lawyers who were on the list just
>unsubscribed! ;-)


Hehe :)

>Like it or not, some legal stuff is necessary to protect us from the
>likes of Constantine Klyatskin (see http://www.digger.org/links.html)
>who, given the chance, would charge us for the air we breathe...


Who's this guy? (checking out the link as I write this...)

>What I do object to, though, is having to wade through mountains of
>legal jargon just to install a piece of software (anyone who's ever
>installed even the smallest patch from Microsoft will know what I'm
>talking about). I wish MS would standardise their license - I don't
>have to read the GPL every time I install a piece of GPLed software...


Yeah, that sucks. Just say "YES" or whatever and get on with it.
Don't tell anyone, but the only Microsoft software I've actually bought
was the good old DOS 3.3 :)

>And other thing - what is that "you may not disassemble/reverse
>engineer/decompile this software" rubbish about? If it's on my hard
>disk, I'll do what I please with it! (And I would, as well, if it
>weren't too long and complicated to disassemble...) As long as I don't
>distribute Microsoft code I can't see how that is enforcable at all.


It's not. But it's still illegal. Plus, it defends them against, say,
another
company taking down their code to little bits, modifying it and releasing
an (god forbid) equally-incompetent software for less money.

Guess Netscape forgot that notion when they wrote the license for
Communicator :)

>Okay, rant over...


Bent over?



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Wed May 26 12:05:43 1999
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:04:28 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

> >What I do object to, though, is having to wade through mountains of
> >legal jargon just to install a piece of software (anyone who's ever
> >installed even the smallest patch from Microsoft will know what I'm
> >talking about). I wish MS would standardise their license - I don't
> >have to read the GPL every time I install a piece of GPLed software...
> 
> Yeah, that sucks. Just say "YES" or whatever and get on with it.

I just don't want to get caught out if they try to sneak in the clause "By
pressing YES you are consenting to selling your soul and all your future
incarnations to the forces of evil..."

> Don't tell anyone, but the only Microsoft software I've actually bought
> was the good old DOS 3.3 :)

Er, Tomer... You do realise that we're having this conversation on the
Digger Chat mailing list, don't you?

> >And other thing - what is that "you may not disassemble/reverse
> >engineer/decompile this software" rubbish about? If it's on my hard
> >disk, I'll do what I please with it! (And I would, as well, if it
> >weren't too long and complicated to disassemble...) As long as I don't
> >distribute Microsoft code I can't see how that is enforcable at all.
> 
> It's not. But it's still illegal. 

Well, we could get philosophical about this and compare it to the noise
made by a tree falling over in a forest when there's nobody around to hear
it... But when it comes down to it, having laws which are unenforcable is
just plain stupid - they serve only to opress those who do follow them and
make criminals out of those who don't.

> Plus, it defends them against, say, another company taking down their
> code to little bits, modifying it and releasing an (god forbid)
> equally-incompetent software for less money. 

No more than a simple copyright statement does. What they are trying to do
is prevent anyone learning to program from looking at their software,  
trying to hide "tricks" which are too simple or fundamental to copyright,
and trying to protect their proprietry, closed, file formats (so you have
to buy Microsoft-licensed software to read a Word document, for example).
I object to MS keeping their trade secrets on my hard disk.

> Guess Netscape forgot that notion when they wrote the license for
> Communicator :)

Nope, MPLed software is copyrighted.

> >Okay, rant over...
> 
> Bent over?

Try increasing the font size in your email client.

Andrew


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From holograph@gamestats.com Thu May 27 12:16:34 1999
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 14:05:32 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@gamestats.com>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   26  1999 13:04
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update


>> Yeah, that sucks. Just say "YES" or whatever and get on with it.
>
>I just don't want to get caught out if they try to sneak in the clause "By
>pressing YES you are consenting to selling your soul and all your future
>incarnations to the forces of evil..."


In that case, my soul is damned...

>> Don't tell anyone, but the only Microsoft software I've actually bought
>> was the good old DOS 3.3 :)
>
>Er, Tomer... You do realise that we're having this conversation on the
>Digger Chat mailing list, don't you?


Yeah. So?  (hmm, I bet that while writing Tomer you were asking yourself,
"what the hell kind of a name is that?")

>> It's not. But it's still illegal.
>
>Well, we could get philosophical about this and compare it to the noise
>made by a tree falling over in a forest when there's nobody around to hear
>it... But when it comes down to it, having laws which are unenforcable is
>just plain stupid - they serve only to opress those who do follow them and
>make criminals out of those who don't.


That's usually what laws are for... besides, I always hated paradoxs (what's
the plural of paradox?)

(If God is indeed all powerful, can He create a rock that He Himself cannot
 lift?)

>No more than a simple copyright statement does. What they are trying to do
>is prevent anyone learning to program from looking at their software,
>trying to hide "tricks" which are too simple or fundamental to copyright,
>and trying to protect their proprietry, closed, file formats (so you have
>to buy Microsoft-licensed software to read a Word document, for example).
>I object to MS keeping their trade secrets on my hard disk.


I object to MS keeping their software on my hard disk, but I don't have much
choice either :)

>> Guess Netscape forgot that notion when they wrote the license for
>> Communicator :)
>
>Nope, MPLed software is copyrighted.


a) I was talking about the passage regarding "do not disassemble/reverse
    engineer our code"... did you notice the complete lack of difference
between
    IE4 and Netscape 4?
b) What the hell's MPL?

>> >Okay, rant over...
>>
>> Bent over?
>
>Try increasing the font size in your email client.


Haha :)



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From holograph@gamestats.com Thu May 27 23:12:44 1999
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:44:25 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@gamestats.com>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   27  1999 19:32
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update


>> >Er, Tomer... You do realise that we're having this conversation on the
>> >Digger Chat mailing list, don't you?
>>
>> Yeah. So?
>
>Okay, just as long as you knew.


Ah, so that's what a disclaimer from the guy who makes the revised Digger
would sound like...

>> (hmm, I bet that while writing Tomer you were asking yourself,
>> "what the hell kind of a name is that?")
>
>I thought it was a not-too-uncommon Israeli name. You're not the only
>Tomer who has emailed me about Digger.


No, it really is quite common, but it's just that Israeli names are usually
considered among the weirdest on Earth. Perhaps it's because it's among
the smallest countries on Earth and one of the smallest populations as
well.

>> That's usually what laws are for...
>
>No, laws are to protect the innocent by dissuading people from comitting
>crimes - to try and reduce (not increase) the number of criminals.


So... copyright laws are to protect the innocent (being Windmill Software,
Fred Ford & Paul Reiche III or any other software firm) by dissuading
people from comitting crimes (copying them).

Of course, it has the exact opposite result in Israel... :)

>> besides, I always hated paradoxs (what's the plural of paradox?)
>
>That's not a paradox. "I command you to disobey this command" is a
>paradox. Paradoxes are cool. Read Douglas Hofstadter's "Metamagical
>Themas" for some really great paradoxes.


What's that? A book?

>> (If God is indeed all powerful, can He create a rock that He Himself
cannot
>>  lift?)
>
>No, because such a thing is a logical impossibility. He can do anything as
>long as it doesn't defy the laws of logic.


There are no "laws of logic"; for some people, logic is one thing, while for
another logic is a completely different thing. There is a majority of people
taking logic for one thing, thus outcasting those who take it for something
else.
That is why we have so-called "mental first aid" institutions.

>> I object to MS keeping their software on my hard disk, but I don't have
much
>> choice either :)
>
>Sure you do. A friend of mine has a computer that for the first year he
>had it, didn't run a single byte of Microsoft code.


Good for him. But I can't do without a certain percentage of my time wasted
on
computer games, and very few run on non-Microsoft operating systems.
That is also the reason I spent  nearly $500 on my two 3D accelerators.
(ouch!)

>Oh, was it you that I was telling about my theory that Microsoft used some
>of Netscape's code in IE4? (An early version of the Digger web site which
>was legal HTML broke in exactly the same way in both browsers). Well, I
>think they've removed it in IE5 because IE5 chokes on some pages that IE4
>handles fine (apparently).


IE5 has a supposedly completely revised rendering engine. That is a point of
debate though.

>> b) What the hell's MPL?
>
>The Mozilla Public License, the license under which the open-source
>Netscape is released.


Oh, OK. (probably devised by the same kind of freaks with glasses and long
hair that devised GPL).



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Thu May 27 23:13:04 1999
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:53:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

> >> >Er, Tomer... You do realise that we're having this conversation on the
> >> >Digger Chat mailing list, don't you?
> >>
> >> Yeah. So?
> >
> >Okay, just as long as you knew.
> 
> Ah, so that's what a disclaimer from the guy who makes the revised Digger
> would sound like...

It just seemed strange that you would start a sentence with "Don't tell
anyone, but..." on a mailing list. Maybe I missed some sarcasm somewhere,
or something.

> >No, laws are to protect the innocent by dissuading people from comitting
> >crimes - to try and reduce (not increase) the number of criminals.
> 
> So... copyright laws are to protect the innocent (being Windmill Software,
> Fred Ford & Paul Reiche III or any other software firm) by dissuading
> people from comitting crimes (copying them).

Exactly, so the "no disassembly" clause can't be for that purpose (since
there is a perfectly good copyright statement for doing that).

> >Read Douglas Hofstadter's "Metamagical Themas" for some really great 
> >paradoxes.
> 
> What's that? A book?

Yes.

> There are no "laws of logic"; for some people, logic is one thing, while for
> another logic is a completely different thing. There is a majority of people
> taking logic for one thing, thus outcasting those who take it for something
> else. That is why we have so-called "mental first aid" institutions.

However, there is one system of logic (the one most of us use) which is
useful because it gives self-consistent results. I think it's fair to
assume that God uses this system of logic since if He doesn't, we can't
even have an argument about it because there is nowhere to start from.

Andrew


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From tomjr@sfo.com Thu May 27 23:13:06 1999
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:00:25 -0700
From: "Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tomjr@sfo.com>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Cc: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: "Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tomjr@sfo.com>


>> There are no "laws of logic"; for some people, logic is one thing, while
for
>> another logic is a completely different thing. There is a majority of
people
>> taking logic for one thing, thus outcasting those who take it for something
>> else. That is why we have so-called "mental first aid" institutions.
>
>However, there is one system of logic (the one most of us use) which is
>useful because it gives self-consistent results. I think it's fair to
>assume that God uses this system of logic since if He doesn't, we can't
>even have an argument about it because there is nowhere to start from.
>

Last I heard there WAS a set of laws of logic for both mathmatics and
compouters.

Thank You For Your Time,

Thomas O Magann Jr
http://www.sfo.com/~tomjr/
<tomjr@sfo.com>
ICQ# 2307431


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From holograph@gamestats.com Fri May 28 13:55:57 1999
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:57:44 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@gamestats.com>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   27  1999 23:54
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update



>> Ah, so that's what a disclaimer from the guy who makes the revised Digger
>> would sound like...
>
>It just seemed strange that you would start a sentence with "Don't tell
>anyone, but..." on a mailing list. Maybe I missed some sarcasm somewhere,
>or something.


Maybe you did... maybe I did, too?

>> So... copyright laws are to protect the innocent (being Windmill
Software,
>> Fred Ford & Paul Reiche III or any other software firm) by dissuading
>> people from comitting crimes (copying them).
>
>Exactly, so the "no disassembly" clause can't be for that purpose (since
>there is a perfectly good copyright statement for doing that).


Better safe then sorry...

>> >Read Douglas Hofstadter's "Metamagical Themas" for some really great
>> >paradoxes.
>>
>> What's that? A book?
>
>Yes.


In that case, no way.

>However, there is one system of logic (the one most of us use) which is
>useful because it gives self-consistent results. I think it's fair to
>assume that God uses this system of logic since if He doesn't, we can't
>even have an argument about it because there is nowhere to start from.


It's easy to say that most of us (us being humanity of course) use a common
system of logic, but it doesn't mean we have to confine ourselves to this
single logical approach.



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From holograph@gamestats.com Fri May 28 13:56:00 1999
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:59:17 +0200
From: Tomer Gabel <holograph@gamestats.com>
Reply-To: digger@onelist.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas O. Magann Jr. <tomjr@sfo.com>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Cc: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:   27  1999 23:59
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update


>Last I heard there WAS a set of laws of logic for both mathmatics and
>compouters.


We're not discussing logic as it is menifests itself in computers, physics
or math, rather a simpler, general approach to logic.

And why the hell is this argument held in the Digger list?



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From amj25@cam.ac.uk Sun May 30 13:38:48 1999
Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 13:33:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [digger] Digger Update

Hi Tomer,

I tried to send this once already, but it doesn't seem to have showed up in
my Inbox or in the archives (which seem to be broken), so apologies if this
is the second copy of it you've received.

>>> So... copyright laws are to protect the innocent (being Windmill Software,
>>> Fred Ford & Paul Reiche III or any other software firm) by dissuading
>>> people from comitting crimes (copying them).
>>
>>Exactly, so the "no disassembly" clause can't be for that purpose (since
>>there is a perfectly good copyright statement for doing that).
>
>Better safe then sorry...

Better right than wrong.

>>However, there is one system of logic (the one most of us use) which is
>>useful because it gives self-consistent results. I think it's fair to
>>assume that God uses this system of logic since if He doesn't, we can't
>>even have an argument about it because there is nowhere to start from.
>
>It's easy to say that most of us (us being humanity of course) use a common
>system of logic, but it doesn't mean we have to confine ourselves to this
>single logical approach.

Oh but we do. Your original question ("Can God create a stone he cannot
lift?") does not make any sense without the axioms of logic. Trying to have
an argument without agreeing on a common set of logical axioms is like
trying to have a conversation without agreeing on a common language!

>>Last I heard there WAS a set of laws of logic for both mathmatics and
>>compouters.
>
>We're not discussing logic as it is menifests itself in computers, physics
>or math, rather a simpler, general approach to logic.

It's all the same logic at heart.

>And why the hell is this argument held in the Digger list?

Well, you started it! I suppose it is a bit off-topic, so maybe we should
take it to email. If anyone wants to start a conversation about Digger to
try and drown out this off-topic stuff, please go ahead.

Andrew




From: RCapprotti@aol.com
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:21:45 EDT
Subject: Re: [digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: RCapprotti@aol.com

thanks

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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:18:49 +0300
Subject: Re: [digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Pleasure is ours.
Avi

At 14:21 17/06/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: RCapprotti@aol.com
>
>thanks
 


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From: Andrew Mozley <andrew.dymic@pop3.hiway.co.uk>
To: "'digger@onelist.com'" <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:12:33 +0100
Subject: Re: [digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: Andrew Mozley <andrew.dymic@pop3.hiway.co.uk>

Hi

I have subscribed to OneList.

"You will find a large group of us die-hards
enjoying the game and discussing many aspects of it"

How do I get to this digger discussion group.  If I search for "Digger", 
all I get is the entry which explains how it was revived from the old 
Wiindmill product.

How can I read what other people have to say, and, who knows, contribute.

Thank you

-----Original Message-----
From:	digger-owner@onelist.com [SMTP:digger-owner@onelist.com]
Sent:	23 June 1999 10:39
To:	andrew.dymic@pop3.hiway.co.uk
Subject:	[digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com

Hello,

Welcome to the Digger discussion list. Please take a moment to review this
message.

Digger has now been rewritten for Dos mode under Windows by Andrew Jenner 
and
Windows 95/98 mode by Tim Draper. You will find a large group of us 
die-hards
enjoying the game and discussing many aspects of it.  De-bugging is 
on-going and
best of all, it is all free of charge.
Jump right in and introduce yourself and join in the fun!

To unsubscribe from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at
www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link from the menu bar
on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription
between digest and normal mode.


Thanks,
The List Owner
digger-owner@onelist.com


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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:33:03 +0100
Subject: Re: [digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Andrew,

>How do I get to this digger discussion group.

You're on it already, as you can tell since you received this message. It's
an email list - when someone sends a message to digger@onelist.com it gets
sent to everybody on the list. I can see why you're confused - it's really
quiet here at the moment!

Perhaps I should try to start off a conversation (although usually when I do
that it just ends up as me and Tomer talking about something completely
unrelated to Digger).

What are your earliest or most favorite memories of Digger? I remember when
I first played it, a few weeks after we bought our first family computer. I
was probably about 9. Dad brought home from work this disk from which one of
his colleagues had given him. there were about 10 games on it. The first one
on the list was Digger. I had no idea which controls to use at first, but
Dad said "try the cursor keys" and it worked. It was much later when I
discovered the fire button. I can still remember the sense of awe which was
inspired by every new level the first time I saw it. Pity I can't experience
that anymore, since I've seen all the levels!

I can't remember exactly which other games on that disk were on that disk,
but I'm pretty sure it also had Willy the Worm and Beast on it.

Andrew


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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:01:20 +0200
Subject: Re: [digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: digger@onelist.com <digger@onelist.com>
Date:  26  1999 23:06
Subject: Re: [digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com


>>How do I get to this digger discussion group.
>
>You're on it already, as you can tell since you received this message. It's
>an email list - when someone sends a message to digger@onelist.com it gets
>sent to everybody on the list. I can see why you're confused - it's really
>quiet here at the moment!


Yeah, maybe we should, like, flare it up or something, dude :)

>Perhaps I should try to start off a conversation (although usually when I
do
>that it just ends up as me and Tomer talking about something completely
>unrelated to Digger).


True, true. Seen Episode I yet?

>What are your earliest or most favorite memories of Digger? I remember when
>I first played it, a few weeks after we bought our first family computer. I
>was probably about 9. Dad brought home from work this disk from which one
of
>his colleagues had given him. there were about 10 games on it. The first
one
>on the list was Digger. I had no idea which controls to use at first, but
>Dad said "try the cursor keys" and it worked. It was much later when I
>discovered the fire button. I can still remember the sense of awe which was
>inspired by every new level the first time I saw it. Pity I can't
experience
>that anymore, since I've seen all the levels!


Aah, Digger :)  I first saw it when we went to my parents' friends' house.
They had
a really crappy 8088 computer with 256k of memory and CGA... but it worked!
A
year later, when I was 5 or so, my parents bought a Generation III XT (8088
w/
512k and a MGA/CGA adapter, later upgraded to 640k, what a marvelous piece
of hardware). My first games were actually 20 games written in BASICA, but
they
were good.
Later on, I got a new 360k disk labelled "5 graphical games", which had
Digger,
Archon (gasp! now THAT'S a game! :)), an ECA basketball game featuring Larry
Bird and Magic Johnson, Frogger (!), and a game called Burger which I doubt
many people know.

I spent most of my time playing Digger, of course.

>I can't remember exactly which other games on that disk were on that disk,
>but I'm pretty sure it also had Willy the Worm and Beast on it.


Hehe, a cool game that was :)
I got another, identical XT two months ago, only it has a problem with the
intergrated NEC video chip - it seems text display has no font what-so-ever,
so I can only play games with their own boot record and which are graphical
(Moon Patrol, Livingstone and several others come to mind).

Tomer



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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:59:30 +0100
Subject: Re: [digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

>Aah, Digger :)  I first saw it when we went to my parents' friends' house.
>They had a really crappy 8088 computer with 256k of memory and CGA... but
it
>worked! A year later, when I was 5 or so, my parents bought a Generation
III XT
>(8088 w/512k and a MGA/CGA adapter, later upgraded to 640k, what a
marvelous
>piece of hardware). My first games were actually 20 games written in
BASICA, but
>they were good.

What, games you wrote yourself or games you typed in from a book?

>Later on, I got a new 360k disk labelled "5 graphical games", which
>had Digger, Archon (gasp! now THAT'S a game! :)),

Never heard of it. Is it anything like Arkanoid?

>an ECA basketball game
>featuring Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, Frogger (!),

Yes!!!

>and a game called Burger which I doubt many people know.

Hmm, I think I've heard of it.

>>I can't remember exactly which other games on that disk were on that disk,
>>but I'm pretty sure it also had Willy the Worm and Beast on it.
>
>Hehe, a cool game that was :)

Which, Willy the Worm or Beast? Both were pretty cool. I wrote another game
similar to Willy but with colour (text mode) graphics similar to those in
"The Game With No Name" (what a game that was!) The result was "Cool Dude",
which (embarrasingly) is still available from
http://homepages.enterprise.net/berrypark/andrew

>I got another, identical XT two months ago, only it has a problem with the
>intergrated NEC video chip - it seems text display has no font
what-so-ever,
>so I can only play games with their own boot record and which are graphical

Ah - a real hacker would write a TSR which bypassed the BIOS and wrote text
output to the screen in graphics mode until he got around to replacing the
chip.


Andrew


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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:12:21 +0200
Subject: Re: [digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [digger] Welcome to digger@onelist.com

> >My first games were actually 20 games written in BASICA, but
> >they were good.
>
> What, games you wrote yourself or games you typed in from a book?

No, neither; I got 'em on a 360k disk. I did, however, learn basic (using
GWBASIC) over the next three or so years, after which I turned to Turbo
Pascal (3.0... yuck :))

> >Later on, I got a new 360k disk labelled "5 graphical games", which
> >had Digger, Archon (gasp! now THAT'S a game! :)),
>
> Never heard of it. Is it anything like Arkanoid?

You've never heard of Archon?! Programmed by the legendary Fred
Ford? <gulp>

Well, it's a sort of a mixture between arcade and strategy, something
like a chess game only with fantastic creatures, and you also control the
fight. You also had 5 magical points, and if you took control of all of them
you won the game. Each side (the Light and the Dark sides, naturally)
also has a wizard capable of casting several spells.

They made a new version of the game called Archon Ultra, I think it was
in 1992, and also another similar game was written by SSI in 1993-4
called Dark Legions. All of them were excellent games.

> >an ECA basketball game
> >featuring Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, Frogger (!),
>
> Yes!!!

NO!!! It sucked :)

> >and a game called Burger which I doubt many people know.
>
> Hmm, I think I've heard of it.

You probably have, it's an arcade classic.

> Which, Willy the Worm or Beast? Both were pretty cool. I wrote another
game
> similar to Willy but with colour (text mode) graphics similar to those in
> "The Game With No Name" (what a game that was!) The result was "Cool
Dude",
> which (embarrasingly) is still available from
> http://homepages.enterprise.net/berrypark/andrew

I'll download it later (getting a new ISDN line in a couple of days). I've
never
seen Willy the Beast, but it also reminds me of more excellent games -
Hard Hat Construction (or something), Zaxxon (aaaaaaah), Mach 3
(aaaaaaaaaaaah!) and Montezuma's Revenge (yuuuuuuh!!).

> >I got another, identical XT two months ago, only it has a problem with
the
> >intergrated NEC video chip - it seems text display has no font
> what-so-ever,
> >so I can only play games with their own boot record and which are
graphical
>
> Ah - a real hacker would write a TSR which bypassed the BIOS and wrote
text
> output to the screen in graphics mode until he got around to replacing the
> chip.

Yes, but interestingly enough, YOU CAN'T WRITE A TSR WITHOUT HAVING A
FUNCTIONAL DOS TEXT EDITOR, OR AT LEAST BY USING:
copy con filename.ext
Smart ass :)



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From: "Ilia Lobsanov" <ilia@lobsanov.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:07:28 -0400
Subject: [digger] intro and self-evolving levels, etc.

From: "Ilia Lobsanov" <ilia@lobsanov.com>

Hi all, I just joined this list, and would like to quickly introduce myself,
as well as pass on an idea for possible debate.

My name is Ilia Lobsanov. I'm male, 21 years old. I started playing Digger
back in Moscow at the age of 12. At 13, my family left Russia for Canada,
and thus I had abandoned Digger until rediscovering it last year.
My whole family loves this game for many reasons I may not even
understand....

Anyway, allow me to describe my idea. If this has been discussed before or
is not feasible, please forgive me, but I could not find anything similar in
the archives of this mailing list.

I noticed that the number of unique levels are limited and thus repeat
themselves. This is disappointing in that one can easily systemize the
playing strategy for each level, and frankly, it becomes boring very soon,
especially to watch.
I would like to propose adding an algorithm to generate uniquely random
levels beyond the original ones. So, the original levels at the beginning
can remain, but to prevent them from repeating, this algorithm can be
invoked.

What do you all think?

Now, I don't know how to implement this idea, since I never wrote any games
before. However, I do know C, so I downloaded the source just to poke at it.
Thanks Andrew!

Lastly, has anyone contacted Windmill at their phone # (905) 639-4515? If
not, I could call them since I live in Toronto and it should be a cheap
call.

I look forward to hear this group's opinion on these matters.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Ilia Lobsanov
http://lobsanov.com
http://VirtualRussia.net


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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:16:24 +0200
Subject: Re: [digger] intro and self-evolving levels, etc.

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: Ilia Lobsanov <ilia@lobsanov.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 9:07 PM
Subject: [digger] intro and self-evolving levels, etc.


> From: "Ilia Lobsanov" <ilia@lobsanov.com>
>
> Hi all, I just joined this list, and would like to quickly introduce
myself,
> as well as pass on an idea for possible debate.

Welcome :)

> My name is Ilia Lobsanov. I'm male, 21 years old. I started playing Digger
> back in Moscow at the age of 12. At 13, my family left Russia for Canada,
> and thus I had abandoned Digger until rediscovering it last year.
> My whole family loves this game for many reasons I may not even
> understand....

Join the club, eh..

> Anyway, allow me to describe my idea. If this has been discussed before or
> is not feasible, please forgive me, but I could not find anything similar
in
> the archives of this mailing list.

Go ahead, make my (our?) day.

> I noticed that the number of unique levels are limited and thus repeat
> themselves. This is disappointing in that one can easily systemize the
> playing strategy for each level, and frankly, it becomes boring very soon,
> especially to watch.
> I would like to propose adding an algorithm to generate uniquely random
> levels beyond the original ones. So, the original levels at the beginning
> can remain, but to prevent them from repeating, this algorithm can be
> invoked.

Interesting idea. Problem is the actual development of the algorithm, since
most of us don't have the time to do this sort of thing.

> What do you all think?

Andrew?

> Lastly, has anyone contacted Windmill at their phone # (905) 639-4515? If
> not, I could call them since I live in Toronto and it should be a cheap
> call.

Windmill software has a phone number?!? Please do!



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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:40:10 +0100
Subject: Re: [digger] intro and self-evolving levels, etc.

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi,

> I noticed that the number of unique levels are limited and thus repeat
> themselves. This is disappointing in that one can easily systemize the
> playing strategy for each level, and frankly, it becomes boring very soon,
> especially to watch.
> I would like to propose adding an algorithm to generate uniquely random
> levels beyond the original ones. So, the original levels at the beginning
> can remain, but to prevent them from repeating, this algorithm can be
> invoked.


That's one way to solve that problem, but I'm not sure it's the best one -
it would be really tricky to get the new levels to have the same "style" as
the original ones. I had some other ideas about how to make the game less
repetitive: having more than 5 monsters, making the monsters move faster and
making the game faster in general. Anybody got any other ideas?

> Lastly, has anyone contacted Windmill at their phone # (905) 639-4515? If
> not, I could call them since I live in Toronto and it should be a cheap
> call.

It should be - Burlington is only about 30 miles south of Toronto. As far as
I know nobody has tried the number yet - I was hoping somebody locally would
give it a go since it would be very expensive for me! I don't hold out much
hope, though, since the letters I wrote to them didn't get through. I think
the only way this mystery will truly be solved is if someone actually goes
to Burlington, visits those addresses, checks the local council records etc.

Andrew


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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:11:22 +0200
Subject: Re: [digger] intro and self-evolving levels, etc.

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 1999 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [digger] intro and self-evolving levels, etc.


> That's one way to solve that problem, but I'm not sure it's the best one -
> it would be really tricky to get the new levels to have the same "style"
as
> the original ones. I had some other ideas about how to make the game less
> repetitive: having more than 5 monsters, making the monsters move faster
and
> making the game faster in general. Anybody got any other ideas?

How about adding monster types?

> It should be - Burlington is only about 30 miles south of Toronto. As far
as
> I know nobody has tried the number yet - I was hoping somebody locally
would
> give it a go since it would be very expensive for me! I don't hold out
much
> hope, though, since the letters I wrote to them didn't get through. I
think
> the only way this mystery will truly be solved is if someone actually goes
> to Burlington, visits those addresses, checks the local council records
etc.

Leave me alone dude, I live even further away from Canada than you :)




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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 12:44:51 +0300
Subject: [digger] Windmill Software

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Okay guys.
I called this number from Israel and actually got an automated system that
took a message.
Apparantely Windmill is still in existence (at least on the recording
phonelines).  I left a message with my e-mail address and we'll see if they
get back in touch with me soon.
Avi

>> Lastly, has anyone contacted Windmill at their phone # (905) 639-4515? If
>> not, I could call them since I live in Toronto and it should be a cheap



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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:57:59 +0200
Subject: Re: [digger] Windmill Software

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Sent: Monday, July 05, 1999 11:44 AM
Subject: [digger] Windmill Software


> From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
>
>
> Okay guys.
> I called this number from Israel and actually got an automated system that
> took a message.
> Apparantely Windmill is still in existence (at least on the recording
> phonelines).  I left a message with my e-mail address and we'll see if
they
> get back in touch with me soon.
> Avi

Hey, cool. Hope it didn't cost much (what, like 0.8NIS per minute, no?)



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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 14:02:10 +0300
Subject: Re: [digger] Windmill Software

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Worth the money to take care of this worry.
Correct, Andrew?
Avi


At 12:57 PM 7/5/99 +0200, you wrote:
>From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>
>Hey, cool. Hope it didn't cost much (what, like 0.8NIS per minute, no?)



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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:47:49 +0100
Subject: Re: [digger] Windmill Software

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

>Worth the money to take care of this worry.
>Correct, Andrew?

Sure thing, Avi.

If they don't get in touch soon, perhaps it can be concluded that they don't
have email - they would explain why they it was that they didn't respond to
my first letter, yet it wasn't returned.

If this is the case, someone needs to leave an address and/or a 'phone
number on that machine. I think that someone should be you, Ilia, if you're
willing, because then it would only be a local 'phone call for them and they
would be more inclined to make it.

If someone does make contact, I'd like to know the name(s) of the author(s),
whether they are still alive or not and any contact details of authors or
next of kin. I'd also like them to know that Digger has been Remastered,
that it's unbelieveably popular, that I would really like to get in contact,
and what my contact details are.

Fingers crossed, everyone...

Andrew


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 09:53:35 +0300
Subject: [digger] Fwd: Your Phone Call

Comments gentlemen?
Avi

Rcpt: benzev@kinneret
Reply-To:
From: "J.A. Windmill Software Inc. (Cherie)"
To: 
Subject: Your Phone Call
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:34:43 -0400
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
Importance: Normal
Mr. Benzev,

Windmill Software is still a fully
functional company owned by Jo-Anne Kempe.
Although the games are not the focus of our current 
business we are still interested in anything
that concerns them.

Jo-Anne is away this week, but will be
back in the office July 12th. She will be happy to 
discuss your interest in the games.

Please email her at _____________with
any details you can provide and expect to hear back 
from her shortly.
Thank you.
Cherie Marsh






From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:13:55 +0300
Subject: Re: [digger] Your Phone Call

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Comments Gentlemen?


At 12:34 07/07/99 -0400, you wrote: 
>
> Mr. Benzev,
> 
> Windmill Software is still a fully functional company owned by Jo-Anne
> Kempe. Although the games are not the focus of our current business we are
> still interested in anything that concerns them.
> 
> Jo-Anne is away this week, but will be back in the office July 12th. She
> will be happy to discuss your interest in the games.
> 
> Please email her at ____________with any details you can provide and expect
> to hear back from her shortly.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Cherie Marsh





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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:45:44 +0200
Subject: Re: [digger] Your Phone Call

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>

> Comments Gentlemen?

Neat. Let us know the conclusion.






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From: "Ilia Lobsanov" <ilia@lobsanov.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:06:46 -0400
Subject: Re: [digger] Your Phone Call

From: "Ilia Lobsanov" <ilia@lobsanov.com>

Too good to be true... you sure you didn't make that up, Avi? ;o)

Hope you bug the hell out of them with questions!! Just don't forget to make
sense! ehehe....

ilia.

----- Original Message -----
From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 3:13
Subject: Re: [digger] Your Phone Call


> From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
>
>
> Comments Gentlemen?
>
>
> At 12:34 07/07/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > Mr. Benzev,
> >
> > Windmill Software is still a fully functional company owned by Jo-Anne
> > Kempe. Although the games are not the focus of our current business we
are
> > still interested in anything that concerns them.
> >
> > Jo-Anne is away this week, but will be back in the office July 12th. She
> > will be happy to discuss your interest in the games.
> >
> > Please email her at ____________with any details you can provide and
expect
> > to hear back from her shortly.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Cherie Marsh
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.digger.org
>


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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:57:54 +0100
Subject: Re: [digger] Your Phone Call

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Avi,

> Comments Gentlemen?

Wow, today is truly a red letter day in the annals of Digger - finally
Windmill Software has been found! You have no idea how many emails I've had
asking about this or giving ideas as to how to trace them.

I have no idea if you've replied to that email yet, Avi, but if you haven't
maybe you could forward a message to Jo-Anne Kempe from me. I've appended it
to the end of this email.

Andrew

--------

Dear Ms Kempe,

I have lots of questions for you about Windmill software and the games that
you have released, but first I have some information for you.

My name is Andrew Jenner and I'm a student in the UK. A year ago I took the
game "Digger" which Windmill Software published in 1983 and re-wrote it to
work on modern computers. Since then I, and the website I have set up at
www.digger.org, have become something of a focal point for the thousands of
fans of Digger from all over the world who missed their favorite game
because it no-longer ran on modern computers. "Digger Remastered" as it has
come to be called, has become a success on an unexpectedly large scale, and
has spawned several ports, add-ons, mailing lists and many other things
which you can find out about at the website.

Digger Remastered was created by disassembling the original game and
re-creating the C source code, so it plays exactly the same as the original
(which is why it has become so much more successful than any of the other
attempts to remake the game which were started from scratch). This does
mean, however, that Windmill Software still owns the copyright to the game,
and that my distributing it is not exactly legal. I thought that you
wouldn't mind, since I have kept all the original copyright statements,
attributed the game to Windmill whereever possible, and I know that I'm not
causing you any financial damage since you haven't made any money from the
game for a long time.

Ideally, I would like you to give or sell me the rights to Digger. I would
then release Digger Remastered legally as free software under the terms of
the GPL (http://www.fsf.org/philosophy). I'd like to talk with you about
this at your earliest convenience. My email address is "amj25@cam.ac.uk".

In the meantime, as I mentioned, I have lots of questions.
Who were the authors of the Windmill Software games? Are they still around?
If not, what happened to them? What other games has Windmill released? We
know about Digger, Rollo and the Brush Brothers, Styx, Moonbugs and Conquest
but have not been able to locate copies of any others (I have heard of
"Floppy Frenzy", "Video Trek 88" and "The Exterminator" but do not know if
these are by your company). Can I put the other Windmill Software games on
the website? What does Windmill software do today?

Hope to hear from you soon,

Andrew Jenner



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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:42:04 +0300
Subject: Re: [digger] Your Phone Call

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Hi Andrew,
I have forwarded your letter to Jo-Ann in toto with a small beginning
paragraph from me.
Now all we have to do is sit tight, play Digger and wait for them to
respond.  ;-)
Avi


At 23:57 07/07/99 +0100, you wrote:
>From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
>
>Hi Avi,
>
>> Comments Gentlemen?
>
>Wow, today is truly a red letter day in the annals of Digger - finally
>Windmill Software has been found! You have no idea how many emails I've had
>asking about this or giving ideas as to how to trace them.
>
>I have no idea if you've replied to that email yet, Avi, but if you haven't
>maybe you could forward a message to Jo-Anne Kempe from me. I've appended it
>to the end of this email.
>
>Andrew
>
 


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From: Christer Levefelt <Christer.Levefelt@entra.se>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:57:32 +0200 
Subject: [digger] Jo-Anne Kempe and Windmill Software

From: Christer Levefelt <Christer.Levefelt@entra.se>

Hello, all.
I searched AltaVista for "Jo-Anne Kempe" and found this link
<http://www.wec.ca/news/mnews.html>. Apparently this is the site of
Women Entrepreneurs of Canada and the page contains the following
interesting paragraph:

----------
Jo-Anne Kempe, owner of J.A. Windmill Software, has opened her second
branch office in Ottawa. The company specializes in software for
property management systems and custom management information systems
software. If you would like more information about Jo-Anne's company and
its international capabilities in housing and building/facility
management in custom MIS projects, contact her at 905- 639-4515.
----------

/Christer

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From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: Digger chat mailing list <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:02:59 +0100
Subject: [digger] Digger Update

From: Andrew Jenner <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

There's lots of new stuff on the Digger website at http://www.digger.org
today - I've rearranged the entire site to make things easier to find,
removed a lot of redundant and out of date stuff, and added lots of new
things. Rather than spoil the surprise, I'll let you go through it
yourselves, but a few highlights are:

The DRF playback bug in Winzip should now be fixed.
The new "Digger extras pack" contains a new level editor and loads of
other handy bits and pieces.
All the Windmill Software games I have are now on the website.

Keep Digging,

Andrew

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From: Gabi <gabi@netvision.net.il>
To: digger@onelist.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:03:28 +0200
Subject: [digger] Hello

From: Gabi <gabi@netvision.net.il>


Hello

My name is gabi and i am 35 years old from Tel-Aviv , Israel.

I got addicted to digger about 15 years ago when a friend of mine bought his
first
XT computer. I can rememebr how much I was fascinated from the graphics ( that
look
so poor NOW....) , and we sat for hours and played it.

I was so happy to find a new version that fits windows+pentium , and i am
totally
re-addicted to it.

I heard that there is a Digger 2 , does anyone knows anything about it and
where can
i get it?

Thanks


Gabi



-----------------------------

*** Name : Gabi
*** Email : gabi@netvision.net.il



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From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:30:02 +0200
Subject: Re: [digger] Hello

From: "Tomer Gabel" <holograph@gamestats.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: Gabi <gabi@netvision.net.il>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 7:03 PM
Subject: [digger] Hello


> From: Gabi <gabi@netvision.net.il>
>
>
> Hello
>
> My name is gabi and i am 35 years old from Tel-Aviv , Israel.

Join the club (though I'm not 35 and don't live in Tel-Aviv) :)

> I got addicted to digger about 15 years ago when a friend of mine bought
his first
> XT computer. I can rememebr how much I was fascinated from the graphics
 that look
> so poor NOW....) , and we sat for hours and played it.

Yeah, I know what that feels like.

> I was so happy to find a new version that fits windows+pentium , and i am
totally
> re-addicted to it.

Again, join the club (oh, you just did: ))

> I heard that there is a Digger 2 , does anyone knows anything about it and
where can
> i get it?

AFAIK Digger 2 is just a version of Digger with different stages (and more
bugs).


Tomer




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From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:45:20 +0100
Subject: Re: [digger] Hello

Hi Tomer,

> AFAIK Digger 2 is just a version of Digger with different stages (and more
> bugs).

It is? When I saw Gabi's message I thought they were probably talking about
Digger Remastered! Why has nobody told me about Digger 2?! If a copy can be
found, I can convert the stages into a DLF.

Andrew




From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:45:20 +0100
Subject: Re: [digger] Hello

From: "Andrew Jenner" <amj25@cam.ac.uk>

Hi Tomer,

> AFAIK Digger 2 is just a version of Digger with different stages (and more
> bugs).

It is? When I saw Gabi's message I thought they were probably talking about
Digger Remastered! Why has nobody told me about Digger 2?! If a copy can be
found, I can convert the stages into a DLF.

Andrew


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From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>
To: <digger@onelist.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:25:38 +0300
Subject: [digger] Re: [diggerupdate] Welcome to diggerupdate@onelist.com

From: Avi Ben Zev <benzev@kinneret.co.il>


Funny.
Thought one list was enough.
Okay everybody, let me know who wants onto Andrews list.
I'll be closing down the digger list as of now.
No need to have a dozen lists on the same thing.
Avi


At 23:12 14/07/99 +0000, you wrote:
>Welcome to the Digger Update mailing list.
>
>You will be sent updates whenever a new version comes out, not
neccessarily if there are just minor changes to the website or a new high
score. For filtering purposes, the subject line will be "Digger Update".
>
>To unsubscribe from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at
>www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link from the menu bar
>on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription
>between digest and normal mode.
>
>Please keep this message for future reference.
>
>Andrew
> 


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